[michaelslenahan]

Couple of questions:

I'm attaching a photo of the three darts that I have. I got them from a local pet shop that I didn't know even carried them. In fact the owner didn't know much about them, and was trying them out for the first time. She knew almost nothing about them--she said she had ordered them from some company in Florida and she didn't know what kind they were or how old or anything. The setup they were in wasn't the best, but they had had them there for over 2 months, so I figured if they were going to have problems from the original company or from shipping they would have shown up by now.

I have now had them for 2 months and they seem to be doing great! All of them are eating well, and they seem pretty active. I just switched them over to another tank--I did the new one with a false bottom to improve the air flow in the viv. Although, the original one still seemed great, I figured this would do better in the long run.

I'm pretty sure that they are auratus, but I'm not sure of the morph--I'm thinking Panamanian? Also, I bought all three assuming they would be the same species and morph, but now I'm wondering about the one in the middle (George)--I would assume still auratus but maybe another morph?

I have no idea of the age--any guesses from the picture? They are all about an inch or so from nose to rump.

Finally, the two on the outside of the picture (Fred and Bill) have been doing something strange in their new tank. There is a log leaned up against the corner and they will climb up towards the top and then jump as hard as they can against the screen! I don't know whether or not they can hurt themselves, but they did it a lot yesterday when I first put them in and a couple of times already today. They seem to be jumping full force though. I looked for flies or something they were trying to get at, but I didn't see anything. Does this sound like a problem, or just adjusting to the height of the new tank?

Thanks!

[RichFrye]

Those auratus look pretty skinny.
How does a false bottom effect airflow?
Do you have pics of the viv? Jumping like that ,and wall climbing like they are in the pic, could be a sign of major stress. Not normal at all.
Buying darts from pet stores, especially ones that know nothing about darts can be a mistake.

Rich

[michaelslenahan]

Rich,

Thanks for replying so quickly.

Those pics are about a week after I first got them in January. That's about how they looked, if not worse in the tank in the pet shop.

It has been about 2 months now since I got them, and I must say they are looking better. Especially the one in the middle in the pic--he seems to be putting on a decent bit of weight, and he is always the first one to the flies whenever I put them in. I will get pics when they are out again; they are hiding at the moment.

But could their skinniness be part of being young? If the company the shop got them from sold them as froglets--2-4 months, the shop had them for 2 months, and I've had them for two months, wouldn't they still be only 6-8 months old? Is it possible to take them to a vet for an approximate age? There is definitely a difference in size--the one on the left is a good quarter inch longer than the others and bigger--the one in the middle is the smallest (about the same size as you see there) but he is putting on the most weight. Is this possible sexual dimorphism, or are they possibly different ages? I have to admit this is the part that annoyed me the most of the things the pet shop didn't know...

I did get some pics of the tank (the new setup) and I will post those below. As far as increasing airflow--I just meant with the extra "air layer" it would keep the viv fresher longer. I know that other people don't put in a false bottom even after years of keeping darts, but I wanted to give it a try.

Thanks for the tip on stress--they seem to be calming down a bit and it seems to be following the same pattern as last time. When I first got the tank, I just had plastic plants, the log, and sphagnum moss on top of some coco fiber. I purchased them and consequentially introduced them one at a time to the tank (even though they were all kept together). As each frog was introduced to the tank, it would climb the walls and go around the whole tank for a day, then spend a few of days hiding (except to eat) and then I would begin to see them out quite a bit of the time.

After another week or so, I planted bromeliads, philos, and some other tropical plants and they did the same thing when reintroduced to the tank--climbing the sides, followed by hiding, and then becoming more active. After this latest change, I removed one of the plants (that had gotten WAY too big for the viv within a month!) and replanted the rest, adding some java moss on the bottom. I haven't seen them on the walls this afternoon at all and they have quit jumping for the ceiling (the only new thing) and they are now all hiding--I hope that means they are adjusting.

With the new tank setup, I also purchased a timer for the light so that their days would be more exact and I changed the on/off cycle for their lighting consequentially. I have a feeling this added to their stress.

As a final note, I also bought a digital thermometer/hygrometer (the analog ones weren't doing an adequate job) and I found that the temperature is around 77-78 during the day with a drop to 72-73 at night. I think this is about right, but it is showing a constant humidity above 95%--is that a problem?

Thanks

(Note: It isn't a great position of George (the one in the middle in the original pic) hiding up on the siphon tube, but you can still kind of see his sides how the are filling out and it looks like his legs might be getting a little rounder as well.

[RichFrye]

If the frogs are six months now, they should probably be larger than an inch. I'm no auratus expert , but I think they should be larger. The one newer pic does look like it is better off now . Much thicker. You may want to plant some more plants that have roots to help more with waste. The broms won't help with that.
It really, really bothers me that pet shops buy animals, and sell animals thye know absolutely nothing about. Please do not patronize shops like this because it only rewards them for bad behavior. They should know better. If you purchase their animals , they will just buy more skinny, non-IDable frogs to send out to the hobby. Boycott them.

Rich

[michaelslenahan]

Thanks again, Rich.

By the way, is Dr. Frye still doing a special on fecals?

[RichFrye]

No problem.
He is.

Rich

[michaelslenahan]

Still looking for other suggestions as to ID...

Ancon Hill? Canal Zone?

All three the same, just variations?

Would love some feedback on ID.

[RichFrye]

Again, not an Auratus specialist, but I have to guess they are the same morph. Just a guess though.
In the future, it is important for everyone to find out as much info about the frogs before you purchase, after can be too late.

Rich

[michaelslenahan]

Thanks Rich.

I agree. I think they came from the same line as well (the only thing that worries me is this page: http://www.tropical-experience.nl/index ... &Itemid=51 ), and I got some ID's on Dendroboard as well from some Auratus keepers. I plan to go back to the pet shop and tell them, "I spent quite a bit of money in here purchasing my frogs, I do not plan to go between you and your supplier, but the purity of the bloodline is important to me--please let me know where you got them and I'll do the research."

Think that'll work?

I hope so. I'm sending fecals to your brother today, by the way. At least I will do the best I can with what I've got.

Cheers, it's St. Patrick's Day!

[RichFrye]

Sounds good.
I doubt the petshop will know though. If they don't have that info right way it generally is lost. But it does not hurt to try. Unfortunately there is also incorrect info shop have given out...
Good luck,
Rich