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Why do people Lurk ?
I'm sure that there are some of us that folks would rather not interact with. I know how some froggers perceive me, even though in person, I'm a very easy going gal. I've started to lurk rather than sign in since some of the topics I participate in tend to come to a dead stop or response has been minimal. I'm guessing that if I'm not around, then maybe this board will get more traffic.

but that's just me -
I think you're wrong....taking it personal. See my post above. Unless you steal frogs or take people's money.....everyone moves on.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
I still think it's apathy and laziness. Jut look at the success of Blogs these days. People just want to log on, take a peak at things and have something interesting be written by the owner or admin and do very little else.

...just a sign of the times and "how it is".

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
The BIG hobby participation hurdle is getting "face time" at local gatherings and meets. THAT is so important and when people see and "feel" each other...true progress gets made - 100 times faster than thru the forum venue / posting and pm's and such. While everyone has an absolute right to limit who enters their home - I would.....I would only bar the frog thief, the smugglers and the flippers that owe people money. That's where I personally draw the line. I have been to 5 Maryland gatherings, 3 in NJ and 2 in NY and 2 here in PA, as well as close to 100 "Reptile Shows". I've yet to see someone get so out of hand that they had to be shown the door. certainly IS possible to enjoy this hobby with PM's, emails and such. But I personally feel the forums and the especially the gatherings are where it's all at. I've made a lot of friends through those 2 venues that I feel, I never would have made otherwise.

Just my .02 ducats.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
I think it takes some time to get the 'feel' for a community/forum. Some people are able to dive right in (the thick-skinned folks mentioned in previous posts) while others wait until they have some experience and knowledge under their belts before they join the discussion.

In my personal case, I often don't post because I feel I've got nothing new to add to the topic at hand. I can't stand the forums that are cluttered with people posting, "^^^ - this." and then adding nothing new to move the topic forward.

I went through a phase where I tried to 'help' as much as I could - digging up old threads for people who didn't like to search, chiming in on my particular side of the mixing debate or posting up fruit fly media recipes, etc. Like Swampfox, I clued in that I could get more done behind the scenes through PMs and emails than I ever could posting.

All that said, I think there are two things that are vitally important to staying 'current' in the hobby. First, as has been mentioned, attend meets/shows and get to know people in your area. Second, even if you're not posting, try to at least monitor the major forums. I think the people who shun the boards entirely (for whatever reason, by choice, lack of time, run ins with admins/mods, etc) are doing themselves a disservice. For example, I have a frogger friend who is in med school and hasn't had time to regularly post/read the forums in a couple of years. Recently, he emailed me looking for a buyer for some frogs that used to be quite uncommon, but have come down considerably in price. I think he was pretty shocked to find that what he thought were $200 frogs were actually going for closer to $100 after doing some browsing of current sale ads. Another great idea is to keep an eye on Vendor Feedback sections - especially lately, someone who has been 'out of the loop' for a while could easily fall into a scam.
-- Google is nifty. Please use it BEFORE getting a pet. --
Swampfox Wrote:... For instance, Ed recently posted a thread about research on UVB and anurans in zoological institutions that got five responses in the first 48 hours. The first response was "who can summarize this in one page and make recommendations?"...

The reason for that response, if it were me making it, would be the fact that Ed has a tendency to quote others' (a lot of others') work, but not really have a full grasp of what he's quoting. Or at the very least is not able to convey the authors' thoughts. The study from 2009 is a worthy read for what exactly? Honest question really. Before I commit to reading something I already (possibly) have a grasp of I'd also like to know why I'm reading something most likely not relevant (snakes, pigs, bullfrogs and pin worms...) to my husbandry. And if it is relevant I would not mind a quick summary by the quoter of what he or she thought of the dictionary quoted...because many, many of us who have been breeding darts for a decent period of time very much disagree with much of Ed's interpretations of what he's read or reading.
BTW, I pretty much find any 'scientific study' a joke when it opens with;

"...a group of R. reticulatus was inadvertently boosted for 45 minutes. This resulted in superficial discoloration of the skin that healed withion a fortnight. These frogs went on to reproduce"...

A truly scientific statement if I ever heard one. :roll: I'm sure the 'whoopsie' did not result in anything other than superficiality, I mean they bred afterwords people...ah, but the use of the term "fortnight" was almsot worth reading the paper. Not every day you read that word in a 'scientific' journal. :wink:

Point...there are very good reasons for lurking and pointing out that all 'scientific papers' are not equal. And guys simply pulling them up to post are not always the ones to interpret for the world.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.

If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: and new phone number is 773 577 3476
The article neither opens up with this statement nor does it claim that it is based on empirical evidence.

The line you reference is taken from a larger personal communication from someone at the Chester Zoo verifying that the zoo does indeed treat frogs as described in the paragraph preceding the statement:

However, even though we know that some species develop NMBD in captivity, even when fed crickets
dusted with vitamin/mineral powder, there have been no formal studies to assess the needs of
amphibians for UV-B and Vitamin D3. To avoid the need for the use of continuous UV-B lighting some
zoos including Chester Zoo (North of England Zoological Society) and Rotterdam Zoo, Netherlands, have
used boost application of UV-B on Dendrobatid frogs. This consists of high levels of UV-B for short
periods of 20 minutes monthly.
Vitamin D3 can be stored in the liver and with mammals has a half life of
about two weeks.

The 'UV-B boost method was developed at Chester Zoo, UK, by Douglas Sherriff and Edwin Blake.
Frogs are placed in an enclosure with a screen mesh lid that guarantees exposure of the frog to UV-B. A
damp paper towel and cool room temperature reduce the chance of dehydration and overheating. If
necessary lateral ventilation panels in the tank and a cooling fan can be used. This enclosure is placed
beneath a UVB-emitting lamp – either an Osram Ultravitalux or a Zoologist Megaray – at a distance to
directly achieve a UV-B level of 350-400μw/cm2.

A finer mesh cover for very small frogs including (Ranitomeya reticulatus and R.lamasi) results in a
reduction of UV-B exposure to about 300 μw/cm2. Frogs are ‘boosted’ monthly for 20 min. Observation of
the frogs throughout the boost and use of a timer is important to avoid problems with over-exposure. For
example, a group of R.reticulatus was inadvertently boosted for 45 min. This resulted in superficial
discolouration of the skin that healed within a fortnight. These frogs then went on to reproduce
successfully (Gibson pers. com.).”

It could have been a letter, email, phone call or whatever. Point being, it is merely a reference to back up the authors statement that that zoo is using UVB treatments. Nothing more, nothing less and certainly not an empirical statement by the author.

Additionally, the lines you quoted are obviously meant to emphasize the preceding sentence:

"Observation of the frogs throughout the boost and use of a timer is important to avoid problems with over-exposure."
Is it an often occurrence to list personal conversations in a science journal to " back up authors"? Is that science? Or to list anecdotal whoopsies which occurred before (?) the tests actually started?

Please bottom line the study Donn. Because here's what I get;
If I have found no loss of skeleton nor found any skeletal deformities, and I have found no excessive calcification or heart seizures in any of my frogs alive or necropsy I have nothing to worry about pertaining to UVB in an excessive or minimal dose.

"However, only two effects have been recorded in amphibians. One is the loss of calcium from the skeleton and skeletal deformaties generically called nutritional metabolic bone disease (NMBD).
The other, being the converse situation, is an overdose of Vitamin D3 and the consequent elevated plasma calcium levels that cause excessive calcification of the skeleton and heart siezure."

I'd personally also expect a scientific paper to be proof read for such misspellings as "deformaties" and "siezures"...

Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.

If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: and new phone number is 773 577 3476
Back on Topic...


Thoughts ?

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
Philsuma Wrote:One of the most frustrating aspects of running a forum are the people that lurk but don't participate in discussions. I think people lurk because:

1. They don't feel "cool", "smart", or "knowledgeable" enough to be able to contribute.

2. Difficulty navigating and knowing where to post and what is appropriate to post. I remember at some point I joined a forum an unknowingly broke a rule (responded to an old post) and I shied away from participating for a long time after that.

3. They are coming for information but not to contribute. Laziness.

4. They think the forum is moving too slow and they won't get a response (this won't happen here, I assure ya).

Im hella diving in here, but I like what you pointed out in #2...

I think pumping old topics can be very beneficial so those who are interested in an old conversation can learn. A lot of really good information gets buried in time on active forums...
^^^ + 100

I have gotten a couple "boos" for thread necromancy, but many more opinions like yours.

Thank you.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
I mean yeah uping a question that was already answered and may have been simple, I can see the nay saying. However, resurrecting a great topic with good advice, and being able to contribute additional info, or pose additional questions seems very helpful if you ask me... It also keeps conversation in one place rather then 438943298 topics on the same subject.

This is exactly why I created my website, and why I make constant changes/updates. I want users to be able to find helpful info in ONE spot. Smile
Some people think they are going to get slapped around or bullied on a hobby forum....and while anything can happen anywhere...I just can't see that as a large percentage of people's fears. I would think that may occur on a Car Club forum or some other "high speed" place, but a Frog Hobby Forum ?? Bullying by forum / Internet ? Maybe I'm old school, and that it is indeed a problem or at least a founded fear. I guess if you look at all the news about it - in public schools ect. But that's mainly kids right ? Young kids.

hmmm. May hafta work up a poll about it...see what people think.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
Alright, I saw this thread and thought hmmm, this definitely applies to me. I'll admit, I am highly guilty of being a lurker, but when I see people post things like "It's called a search function…" it makes me shy away from posting. They're right… as I mentioned in another thread, for years I have found nearly every piece of information I wanted by using search functions and reading stickies. For major issues I rely on experts I have met throughout my journey. It kinda sucks honestly. I would love to get to know people better, especially those focusing on the same animals as I.
I have a confession....

In 2005-ish.....I was a lurker. I refused to post. I was scared of posting. That's right. You read that correctly. Scared. Scared of what other people would think. Scared of making grammatical or structural mistakes. Scared of being....wait for it....wrong.

Ha !

Now.....people would pay to shut me up.

I will proffer this though...I was the kind of person...years and years ago, that would get upset, cringe and hide from a post. Not anymore. The way I GOT THRU that was to bull my way to becoming less sensitive to the printed word of others. I can literally recommend that if you have an aversion, a phobia, an out-an-out problem or issue with posting....the way to combat and surmount that is to post OFTEN. Totally "gut" your way thru it and post and post and post, and one day, you will quite actually "break through" the other side and not care what others write. That is to say, not take anything personal.

...just my experience, but also a STRONG recommendation.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
You're right, and I have more recently started putting down a word or two when the occasion occurs that I have something remotely meaningful to say; even if it's just "nice job" or "awesome frogs." For me, it wasn't necessarily a "scared" thing in the past, it was more of a "why bother bothering people when they seem so irritated by a simple question?"
Kate Wrote:"why bother bothering people when they seem so irritated by a simple question?"

I've never understood why people that get irritated by a question that has been repeated a million times, post at all. Skip it if you don't want to answer it. Simple and easier... :wink:
Everyone has the right to be pissed of or irritated by the slightest thing...

Everyone else also has the right to ignore said irritation and associated remarks.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
Yes, but you asked why people lurk. Everyone may have the right to hang out on their high-horse. However, as a result some may prefer to stay away from the stench of manure. Smile
I lurk, therefore I am..not

At first I had nothing to say, so I read. Then I realized who some of the people giving advice were ( new people repeating what was told to them the previous week). Then I realized the cycle of 80% new members falling off or out within a few months.
My excuse now? I have 'lurked' for 2yrs. (11 posts)and met some locals that i talk frogs with. So, now when I think of posting, I type and delete. Feeling like I would come off as someone repeating what others have said, or boasting.
In short I got into frogs for me. This forum thing is still fairly new to me. I usually don't go out looking for conversation or new friends in the real world, so I am still working on this concept.


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