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...and we are back to the old 'chestnut"- How do we define who is a Hobbyist and who is a Businessman ? And what percentages of both /either ?
Sean S. is very much looking to make a business from exotic animals. One look at his Chondro and ETB collection will tell you that.
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More importantly Phil, apparently being a businessman precludes you from doing the right, ethical thing. So only hobbyists should do the right thing and if your a business don't worry about it, do whatever, just make money.
Jon
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If anyone is still wondering "why" the $150 answer is $$$.
But at least he puts out tons of good tips and 'secrets'...now wait a second...
At least he imports a lot of frogs, which tons of people really , really care about, and get sucked into.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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ahh..I just remembered I had taken a few pics of Sean's 'sky Blues'.
here they are....
Good, bad, ugly, indifferent, trendy, declining, shabby, chic.....you decide.
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Kinda reminds me of 80's "acid-washed" denim...
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Chuck Lawson Wrote:Kinda reminds me of 80's "acid-washed" denim...
Let's hope this turns out the same way, they were trendy for a few years, and then you wouldn't be caught dead with them.
Jon
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I loved those jeans...parachute pants, not so much....
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I like reading into topics like this. This topic is a good example of another benefit as to I got into this hobby. To help me through the struggle of school and "Why do I need to learn this?" Anyways in my overflowing wealth of knowledge obtained from my entire 12 week academic career consisting of a class of General Biology so far, I now can ask some questions in relations to the terminology that we are covering in class to help me study for the next exam hahaha. I've read threads from other students before who want to show off their new knowledge of definitions and stuff and throw their foot in their mouths and heads up their butts at the same time, but I'm struggling and only getting a 70% in the class, which is about 8% above the class average of 240 people. So I'm a somewhere in the middle student. The big thing I've learned so far is not to take 17 credits in one semester ever again. Absorbing all that information is like trying to drink out of a frickin fire hose... We have been learning about allele frequencies and drawing Punnett Squares and all that kind of entry level stuff on evolution (gotta learn to crawl before I can walk right?). My book uses red and white flowers in a field as an example and pretends that the white ones get stepped on by a moose, but I like to pretend those are frogs being taken out of the wild to help me understand lol. Anyways, I guess my question for anyone with a few years of exp. in the hobby would be, is it encouraged to find people with healthy frogs of different lines and trade so both owners get some "new blood" into their populations? Or are the populations in the wild so condensed that it really doesn't make a difference in either partys gene pool? Because it's important (to some of us more than others) to have and maintain pure blood lines, which the Sky Blues are I guess, just selectively bred. My wife showed me a picture of a dart frog she saw on Facebook that had an extra arm growing out of its chest the other day. Do you guys think more of that stuff will show up in the years to come because a lot of the frogs in the hobby all mostly trace back to the same population? Maybe I should start my own "Help Josh through school" thread to not hijack this one.
Josh
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Great post Jay, but yes...let's please start a new thread on Genetics.
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I like them. That's all I'll say on the matter.. in fear of being condemned or blacklisted  . The whole vibe of this hobby.. is very different than that of the hobby I'm coming from.
P.S. I do not plan to own anything but wild-type darts. No worries.
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Lets think about this guys and gals...
Why try to improve/select for traits when it is naturally random? That is one of the great things about breeding darts.
For example I have had so many juvies from my cristobals that are unique in every way: blue footies on high red bodies, orange, brick red with spots that look like black jeans and solid red with little blue.
I have seen little or no spots from azureus from Caspers juvies. I have a pair of black jeans that have a little of black mottling and 2 juvies in the viv with them that are black mottled all over their body.
Why in the heck fix what is not broke? That IMO is what I love about breeding/raising frogs. Isn't that what it is about?
As far as "those" that think they are doing the right thing ($$$) to breed for a specific traits I am against it. Nature does the variety naturally. I believe more $ and effort should be put towards making sure via testing we are not harming the environment or the hobby by not testing and shipping positive Chytrid and or rana positive frogs.
Much better for the environment and the cb frogs.
-Beth
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I'm not a big fan. Especially since these were what brought me into the hobby to begin with. I loved the way they already looked naturally in the wild. I don't know about others, but I LOVE the wild type, regardless of what kind of animal it is. Why? Because I get to enjoy a natural piece of nature that already has become amazingly beautiful through evolution all on its own.
Simply put, I don't want something man made. I want something nature made.
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I just can't help but wonder if Sean had gone about this project another way....another way, instead of '12 years'. As you can see from the first post on this thread, ole' Jack W. reports seeing the 'no spotted' animals in situ way back when.
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Philsuma Wrote:I just can't help but wonder if Sean had gone about this project another way....another way, instead of '12 years'. As you can see from the first post on this thread, ole' Jack W. reports seeing the 'no spotted' animals in situ way back when.
What would be another way? Is there another way? :?:
If the 'no spotted' animals that he had were not part of a selective breeding project and were, in fact, naturally originating from the wild (i.e. naturally occurring in captive bred populations whose original pool was previously obtained from the wild), then I would consider it to be natural and an animal I would admire.
Knowing that this line of animals IS man made will keep me from purchasing them though.
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There is ALWAYS another way. The '12 years' thing is what killed this for many people.
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Phil, you are grieving! Grieving the Sean that you thought you knew, who was good for the hobby, and did things the "right" way. Now you find out he is actively doing things the WRONG way, for monetary gain, and you are having a hard time coming to grips with that. You are disappointed in him, for good reason. Sean is actively going about selective breeding of darts, and you feel very strongly that this is wrong, and it hurts you! You keep saying it's 'the 12 years thing' that is the problem, yes! He knowingly did this for the past 12 years!!! That is aweful!!!!
P. Terribilis orange, R. Imitator Cainarachi Valley, D. Leucomelas, D. Auratus, D. Azureus, P. vittatus, D. cobalts, D.Oyapok, Bombina Orientalis
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Sometimes your snark turns out to be a boojum...
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Chuck Lawson Wrote:Sometimes your snark turns out to be a boojum...
I was so lost until I googled this.
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...and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Until it's found being used in an absolute , undeniably un-cigar-like way.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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