Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

[Stu&Shaz]

Hey Beth,
yeah I guess our cultures differ somewhat on what we feed our frogs. Mind i was meeting you somewhere in the middle as I was actually pondering if aphids could be cultured more consistently on other members of the pea family,than the normal pea shoots. Beth, we really do grow alot of our own food,as well as most of our plants for vivs.We have both worked in horticulture,nowt glamorous,but lets just say we grow things. So one becomes aware that some plants get infested by aphid only on the growing tips,or shoots,broad beans are a great example,as probably are peas(i've never seen pea aphids on my crops,hence the probably). These lupins here were infested on the whole plant,as well as the aphids being huge in size,hence my pondering.
best

Stu

[BcsTx]

Once the rain stops I can try to take some pictures of the aphids on my rose bush for you.

Really miss the home grown veggies..

[Stu&Shaz]

Our home grown veg is a primary source our food Beth,best eaten while still screaming from being pulled.
anyway da froshe

that mystie better pics as promised


OH, for size ref. that black corner strip is 1cm ,yeah I know metric...sorry guys :oops:







Little Leuc that I found a s a tad fallen from it's film can hatching site,something like 10days two weeks OOTW,reared in the ditch at the front of our "EURO" viv design. As with mystie reared without help or feeding apart from bunging shedloadsa springs at them for a few days after morphout...ahh the joys of bigger vivs that have had a couple of years of growing in and frogs, a nice little ecosystem





Hmm still awaiting failure ,but still going two of the three RFD tads approaching morphout part raised by mum cem basti part fed by us,one slightly behind the other has survived way more of me helping than the other "adopted" tad. Chances of success slim...chances of failure high,but all 3 are still alive go figure huh,it will all go pearshaped at morphout I guess or maybe....just maybe....








take care

damn it' s hot here today

Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

Ahh this is so cool, one double tinc transport,but first the hard stuff I lost my female ,she passed about the same time as me Dad,just after,but I've torn myself up over it, as still I feel I didn't do right by her.We got an autopsy done,but no real diagnosis of cause,but I do know it wasn't Bd,so another negative Bd is something to clutch at i guess. She( "Tank") was special to me!! By some incredible stroke of luck I managed to get a new lady for Tiger,her fella. After bloody yonks of QT ,they are finally together, they just did this!! Both went back and carried more after they had unloaded these. This is the second female attachi transport(pictured here,but diiferent frogs),this time no more eggs have been laid I can't see this was an accident she knew exactly what she was up to,why go back for another.......I guess the world of darts is full of wonder and unanswered questions,we just can't take all that is written as gospel. We have to go there and find out...sure take on board the wisdom that is so graciously passed on. The thing is though, no one told me frogs...how funny is that,but hell when I told her she just gave me that look women do :roll: .
Here's Tiger 8)


Somebody enlighten our new lass huh...she's lovely ain't she


Hmm I spent hours today boiling charcoal,got a plan,need a couple of springtails to feed some kids.



Is it true that to keep darts you have to be 5 cans short of a six pack,or am I missing something
night all

bring it on

Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

Well unfortunately I can report that all 3 of the RFB tads didn't make it OOTW all suffering from some very mild form of sls. We learnt much from this though. I think it will stand us in good stead for later times. Our red frog beach viv has recently had to have all the broms bar one replaced. Rather strange in a way ,as all had been growing in there well,before the frogs went in,so whether the frogs are a possible cause who knows,but this sort of senario was why we attempted this.


Some time back I started trialing some methods to grow moss. If you guys can get hold of epiweb moss mix,then sowing fairly thickly on ecoearth popping that in a propargator and keeping wet for a good while seems to work well. I actually started this under cling filn,I think you guys call this saranwrap? I got caught by a fast growing fern,the whole lot nearly dried out,which might have had some effect,on species germination. but we still have this.



and some detail




This is really useful as I can easily transplant sections into a viv,first attempts seem to be holding their own and growing,these have been transplanted on to some oak,I really like the effect of moss and young ferns starting to colonise wood. Naturally this makes the mix very cost effective as one could equally grow on separate plants to a more mature status.



We also managed to get hold of some of your (US ) blackjungle sheet moss I trialed it on peat,ecoearth and a mix of the two,first impressions were the mix was best but over time the ecoearth has proved to be the best subs,peat seems just too acidic,so I scrapped that one and placed what was left in a viv,to see if it will recover. The ecoeath looks like this now. I shall continue to grow this on,untill such time as I have enough to start to trial in vivs. It is rarely available here ,so even though short term I might have taken a step back,long term I'm hoping to have a supply for us at hand that has never come into contact with frogs,so I can seed out more than one viv,as we build out more



This is how to make more of the heart fern. If a stock plant is kept humid enough,then a little plantlet will often develop at the base of a leaf,catch it right,and this can be transplanted by simply snipping off the leaf an inch or so down the stem.
here is a newly moved leaf and plantlet doing well


I really like growing our own plants,not only a massive money saver,but also I know all history of said plants,so I can totally rule out pesticides and other nasties used in horticulture. We do have suppliers here of great viv plants,but one can't beat being sure.

Finally cause I can







Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

We got gifted this little guy a week or so back,damn what a stunner,let's hope she makes it and we get to see what exactly she turns out like,much paler than the other cem bastis produced so far. They have just stepped up a gear for some reason so hopefully more will follow,ahh the joy of not knowing even the base colour of the next froglet



seeya

Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

Almost the end of our first year breeding pums so some kids,why not huh,maybe a bit heavy,advanced pumsters please advise,



Either Red frog beach or cem. basti




















Ya know, I think there is more, I think I'm sad cause all are still here,but it's ok, we are slowly learning what we are capable of,that's cool,i like that. Head down,no ego, go for it,graft for it. Sorry my thread has languished in the dark for a while,but we haven't gone away,we are just getting dirty tis all :lol: .


seeya

Stu

[DrNick]

These lupins here were infested on the whole plant,as well as the aphids being huge in size,hence my pondering.
best

Stu

Complete tangent here Stu (as usual...) so my apologies! Slow day in the office....

Those large aphids you get on lupins are, indeed, dirty yank invaders. They are now very widespread in the UK and, as you postulate, make excellent frog food! In a mix with flies and the usual fayre, 4 or 5 lupins-worth of aphids is easily enough to keep my collection going on a weekly harvest. The only larger aphids I have seen over here are the good old willow aphids which should be used with caution - I know a man who once found one with its dorsal 'fin' lodged in a P. terribilis' upper pallet!

Nick

[Stu&Shaz]

These lupins here were infested on the whole plant,as well as the aphids being huge in size,hence my pondering.
best

Stu

Complete tangent here Stu (as usual...) so my apologies! Slow day in the office....

Those large aphids you get on lupins are, indeed, dirty yank invaders. They are now very widespread in the UK and, as you postulate, make excellent frog food! In a mix with flies and the usual fayre, 4 or 5 lupins-worth of aphids is easily enough to keep my collection going on a weekly harvest. The only larger aphids I have seen over here are the good old willow aphids which should be used with caution - I know a man who once found one with its dorsal 'fin' lodged in a P. terribilis' upper pallet!

Nick

I'm in shock,not once before have either of us ever deviated from topic,how could you do such a thing? :lol:

no apologies for more education Nick,the old grey matter is like a sponge for such things,trouble is they tend to fall out the other side,bugger it is.

Seriously now I really do appreciate this,I had no idea they were another import, i'd lay a bet without cities papers too hock: , but fantastic to know they can be added to the frogs fare. Whilst we are all tangental like and as one whom cultures aphids,Nick, have you tried, to culture these at all? I'm musing over something bigger(larger scale)
than pea shoots,ha ha tincs mate :lol: .

Me postulate...i feel sullied, :lol:
merry chribo mate,I hope the project is going well,head down buddy
best always
Stu

[DrNick]

:roll: I don't even know what the bloody topic is half the time anymore! That goes for all areas of my life!

Regarding cultivation, I never had to bother, first because the plants in the garden were covered and provided a ready supply and second because I only really needed that much large food when I was rearing galactonotus juveniles (which I have not done this year). I would guess they would be very easy to grow over-winter indoors. Lupins are not exactly the hardest plant to grow! All you would need is space.

I still maintain that if you want a ready supply of high-energy food to add to the mix, aphids are a no-brainer. They probably make up a third or so of the diet of my frogs and are as quick to produce and far less hassle than FFs. Just got to be careful that no FFs get in the cultures and 'inoculate' your peas as they are laying down roots!


Nick

[fieldsmith]

Looking great y'all! Wishing you continued good froggy fortune in the new year.

[Stu&Shaz]

Hey buddy,much too long bro,have the best new year. The ol' frogs are keeping us busy kiddo,but all is good,well I guess a bit beyond that now!!

I hope all is well with you yours and the frogs mate,best yet back at it!!

Happy new year Field

best

Stu

Ps thanks Nick,hmm I shall muse on this

[Stu&Shaz]

I'm close to closing the door on this build now,its a two foot cube,for some oophaga histrionica redhead,it's roughly based on the hardstone video I shall TRY and link :roll: Usual methods already covered here for construction of the rocks. Some big ol'monster water holding broms to mount on to the wood,plus more wood to be placed in viv,when I'm happy I have the right piece. I'm hoping to fake the top of the bank ,by using some ficus to go up,hit the top glass and tumble back down. I would also like to use some small adiatums,if I can source some here. It's not terribly visible,but the are planters in the rockwork,mainly LHS as the broms will mainly sit to the left. I'm totally dreading getting it into the rack,as it's big cumbersome and it's designated space is about about 5 1/2' high,I'm sure other froggers are not quite so mad as us,but small room so trying to mazimize space.

The poly work took alot of time and I'm still not convinced totally with my craftsmanship,but then I never am :lol:

So some pics





covered in rockoflex look at all those bit I must be mad :roll:



sneaky planter


rockwork complete and in situ: LHS



Center view



RHS




some little leucs just morphed,ahh bless



young pan special about a year old,ready for a new home



I need to prove to myself that I can rear a tinc and get it damn close to WC size on track at around 18 months,morph Atachibakka not quite ready to be put on a leash,but hell we are working on it hock: I think a lass



taht will do for tonight,Happy new year to ya'll,thanks for the help and take care

best

Stu

[fieldsmith]

Loving that new tank! And sounds like its gonna be home to some spectacular frogs, can't wait to see finished pics...now get on it!!!

[Stu&Shaz]

Top is on Field,just waiting for my runner supplier to come back,I'm short on a bottom runner,ahhhggg. Thanks for the kind words mate.

Oh buddy spectacular they are,I promised a link,but didn't supply,my apologies all. Now you might be aware of these videos,some of the best wild footage I've ever seen,but worth linking for anyone. Mate look very hard at the very beginning or the red head video,plant wise,these is something there that I would never have thought I would see with a dart,shows how little I know!!

http://www.hardstonevideo.de/english/col2012.html

Oh Fieild I'm so made up(happy) . Shaz's favourite dart is azeureus but she wanted some fairly dark spotty ones,no line bred stuff or anything like that,ya know a lady's mind,I want this,nowt else will do :lol: .Me well the parameters are slightly different,we have no records here,no lines,nothing to go on really.But I have more than a hunch that the gene pool here is very small,after doing more than a little questing on the subject So me, I want two lines to breed from as far as possible that I can find apart genetically (if that really is possible. So I've been trying to get THOSE frogs for ever now. I've just missed time after time,tried to sort with friends not right,Actually bought a breeding trio,3 females(good isn't it),one tore into the others like the world would end,so took two back. But kept the fat aggressive monster(perfect colour for Shaz,big strong frog for me). We finally got two boys a few months back,they came from an old guy,whom unfortunately had to give up.I think it just got too much for him in his 80's. The frogs were a bit underweight and a bit smaller than i would have liked,but Shaz liked them and they fitted my parameters too. So we took a stab in the dark,even my patience was starting to wain by now,let alone my lass whom grafts for her frogs bloody hard. They have been banged up in QT for a goodly while now,the night before last,we put them with the lass. Well they are boys,poor b*stards have been set upon by one monster horny lass like nothing I've seen,she's been bouncing from one to the other stroking , cuddling the works,it's been hilarious to watch. We had to get two,one would never cope with her,at one stage one took himself of for a rest,carpet burns I think :oops: But Shaz finally has her frogs,thanks god it is sorted,let's hope all goes well now. None of them are from the main line here and seem pretty far apart from what I can ascertain,german and dutch stock for parents

Incidentally,trying to get weight off a big female in a 2'base viv heavily seeded months before she went in has been now easy task,minute feeds for a tinc,fly wise have not helped much,I hope with the onset of breeding and the boys nailing food well,I might be able to get things a bit more as they should be

bring it on

Stu

[DianeCarter]

Stu, I must thank you for the best laugh I've had in a while!! Reading about the fat aggressive monster going after the 2 poor little new boys, OMG! She bounced from one to the other, carpet burns involved, OMG again!! Thanks for the laugh, I surely hope everyone survives!!

[Stu&Shaz]

Stu, I must thank you for the best laugh I've had in a while!! Reading about the fat aggressive monster going after the 2 poor little new boys, OMG! She bounced from one to the other, carpet burns involved, OMG again!! Thanks for the laugh, I surely hope everyone survives!!

:lol: I'm a strange one Diane I'm so serious about our frogs care and doing my utter best for them,but at the same time like to smile and have a laugh. It will never change. I work a short day today, I'm a care worker,I look out for a guy with a brain injury and other problems,my humour is an incredible asset when things get hairy. When someone attacks one, or is very upset and they don't really know what they are doing because of their problems laughter just diffuses things 8) That aside I just can't always be serious watching it all was hilarious,so I tried to convey that.

All is good maybe eggs soon,'erm imagine my shock at seeing the blue monster wedged in a damn film can,why can't she use the lovely cocohut i gave her,I thought the boys might get some relief from her,by popping into a can as it is a fair squeeze for an azzie,boy. It seems I was wrong,bless 'em I'm just so happy for Shaz on top of all this.

Oh, it get's worse Shaz calls the blue monster "Bonnie blue Butler"...mad as march hare's the pair of us!!

Thanks mate, English lang. isn't my forte so it's lovely to make some smile so far away
best

Stu

[DianeCarter]

Well I guess you two shouldn't be called Stu and Shaz, but rather Rhett and Scarlett! And the baby (blue monster) has every reason to be very happy now, with her 2 new boys--she is now indeed very bonnie!

As far as helping an Azzie lose weight--good luck! If you come up with success, please let me know how. I have 4 Azzie's, 3 are female, and now that they are approaching 2 years old, they are packing on the pounds, so to speak. They are big girls! And lately, one of my females and my only male have been going into cans about every day. A difficult task, no doubt! I keep hoping to actually find eggs in one of the cans, but nothing yet.

Best of luck with all your crew, I have enjoyed reading about all your babies these last few years, thanks Stu!

Diane

[Stu&Shaz]

Thanks for the kind words Diane .

Mate back to serious head on(OMG). I'm learning all this, 3 years on 25feb 2014,in my eyes despite what you have seen and there is more,that I'm being shy on, my biggest challenge yet has been rearing a tinc properly. I'm a fussy old git,I want F1 to look exactly like WC,not 2cm smaller,if that(our) 2 year programme doesn't achieve the result I've failed in my eyes. To me these tincs are out there,they are quoted as the classic beginner frog,they almost want to be our friend,I adore them for that,but so many get no where near what they should be size wise. Bare with me mate I'm getting there. They need sustained food while they grow,they don't need breeding too early,by that i mean probably 2 years. But once that has hopefully been reached then ,we(I am really talking about me here, but including others,subliminally) need to feed less or they get obese. The blue monster we bought was just that,size cool,but weight all wrong. So I think you are spot on,good luck getting that weight back, to how it should be. IT IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to do that just as you say. Newer guys than us really need to be aware of this,just how hard it is to get an obese frog back to what her weight should be,it's astoundingly difficult. Especially when you stock a viv like I tend to on set up and have the affinity with iso we seem to have found. "Bonnie" has been on what some would consider starvation ration, FOR A LONG TIME,trying to get that weight back to where it should be . Honestly 5 flies or so,but it has made little difference,some for sure,but she is still too heavy. My hopes are that the extra energy expended breeding will pull her to size/weight she should be,for sure her chasing the poor boys ALL WAYS will help,but it's still a work in progress.

I bloody love tincs, I adore their nature,actually adore the challenge and learning with and through them,damn they have taught me erious disciplin on culturing,the needs of watching for stress,stocking densities,relevant to space,bla de bla.
But as a hobbiest in his infancy of learning,damn one needs a head down attitude for these frogs.

Courtship continues,the pondering now is how does one feed the two boys up,and pull the blue monster back. Beginners frogs as hard as they get,wonderful irony,I love it.


Back to me, now,got some mini skaterboy pads made up,no more carpet burns....phew :roll:

thanks Diane

Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

Well I finally tracked down my runner guy,set to work and the viv is now in the rack. I'd made up that the job went smooth I was worried a 2'cube is a big lump to pop into a space almost at head height.



With that in mind you'll note the move was done without wood in place,all the wood being previously cut to size. In all honesty I'm undecided on whether to use broms or film cans as depo sites. Me oophaga and broms don't seem to fare well so far,take the oophaga out of the equation and all is well. So I've used the previously seen technique of a holesaw to somewhat hide the cans from view.
As of a couple of days back planting is pretty much complete,wood in place. This one will take a longish time to properly grow in,the small ferns on the wood and also bottom left are epiweb moss mix,grown on for around a year I guess,a cool little dodge for some very cheep plants. Cissus amazonica at th e back,i'm hoping this will fill out the back and complete with hanging roots will create the illusion of the top of the bank. The moss fore ground is blackjungle sheet moss,it is pretty expensive here for a small bit,so this has been growing here for some time and I'm using new growth in the viv.I'm starting it will ecoearth pushed into little cracks in the wood ,this will hopefully hold a bit more moisture while the moss gets started.
Front right margravia umbulata,right top a bulbophylum orchid,i think the only bought plant in there. For the life of me I can't remember what the epiphytic catus is on the left,apologies
LHS


central view


RHS


The only thing you can't see really is the epiweb moss mix scattered on the foreground cork,that will probably take a long time to really get going,if it does. Previous experiments with this stuff seem to bring the following results,if it has some form of substrate to grow on then the ferns seem to predominate,failry quickly,but sown on to cork moss mainly shows but takes much longer to appear.

The azzies have laid several clutches now,i'm just waiting to see if the latest are fertile. I guess i'm happy to wait a while,Shaz less so,but first clutches are probably best not set anyway,so no hardship. The poor boys are still taking a battering but she has started to back down a bit now. The boys look even better condition now after a few weeks in viv,I'm properly happy with how it's all taking shape. We have got some of the oldest RFB kids in viv now. I'm hoping to prove sex on the 3 of them,but I think it's a bit early for 2 of them yet,my primary hope for a female called withing minutes of going in to viv. Shaz also heard one of the young cem bastis call,but as of yet we haven't sorted who it was. The SB kids from december are growing really well some real stunners in these two batches.So overal things are pretty good here and we hope they are with you guys

take care

Stu