"Scaring away" New people ?

[Philsuma]

Does anyone think that anti -hybrid, anti-mixing posts ect actually scares new people away from an online forum or the hobby itself ?

I've heard this theorized before, more than once, but I completely fail to see the logic in it.

What am I missing here ?

[edwardsatc]

I don't believe it scares them away from the hobby, but it may discourage them from using forums. Not because of the topic, but because of the nastiness with which some approach the topic.

Afterall, one does not have to belong to a forum to be a successful hobbyist. Many very successful froggers do not participate in these forums.

[Tony]

Would it be a big loss if it was true?

[Philsuma]

I don't believe it scares them away from the hobby, but it may discourage them from using forums. Not because of the topic, but because of the nastiness with which some approach the topic.

Afterall, one does not have to belong to a forum to be a successful hobbyist. Many very successful froggers do not participate in these forums.

I personally go back to the 1980's for Herpetoculture. We had no internet, heck we had no com-pu-tor.

An niche online forum and archival information repository like, ahem, this one, is a veritable Library of Alexandria.

One can learn more here in 4 weeks, than in 4 years. I think there's a whole demographic of "lurker hobbyist" - a rather high percentage, IMO. Some would rather have a blog as well....

[scarloc]

Maybe it is true, sometimes people only want to hear (or read) what they want to hear. Maybe they were looking forward to a rainforest tank with different vibrant coloured frogs hopping about. I was actually looking forward to something like that when I first started reading, but I accepted this wasn't the way to be and just focused on one species. It's probably better as experienced hobbyists yourselves, to remember that its better for the frogs not to be mixed and risk suffering than to make some people unhappy. Besides, these people might not have been 100% committed anyway.

[Philsuma]

^^ Good answer....very insightful.

[frogfreak]

I don't think posting on forums is for everyone and I seriously doubt the odd debate has any effect whether they do or not.

IME about 3-5% of people post and the rest lurk. The odd topic will hit 10% of replies to views, but they are generally the same posters.

What's your number crunching saying?

[Michael Lawrence]

If I really gave a crap about that board I would have said something tonight on it there, Speaking up, Taking a stand or whatever on any subject related to this hobby is our right and yet is one way we teach the new hobbyists so if feelings get hurt or people find this hobby is not what they thought it was or if they choose to not listen to our thoughts its noones loss. There are many sides, opinions and to me if a place like an aquarium, museum or public display that can influence more people than us is screwing up I dont care who they are they need to know that their is a hobby, united or not that dislikes, disagrees with or whatever they are doing and why. Offering help can only go so far when they are not based on the hobby but on profit. Its kind of like trying to help the local pet shop, they always think they know better. Only these people should know better.,,,and if they dislike what you say or deny free help on the matter why not make it clear publicly their ways are not respected by an experienced community on the matter.

Michael

[itskris]

I'm actually glad that this forum was so open about posting the mixing information. Whether or not we are going to mix species, someone will. I'm not going to do it... and I'm not going to do it based on the information that I've read about it. But again, that isn't going to stop the people that are going to do it.

The key is education. By educating newbs on mixing species hopefully they will make the sound decision.

[jellyman]

First I would say that the combination of this forum and DB are such a small percentage of hobbiest that keep dart frogs. There are tens of thousands of frogs produced and imported every year and only a few hundred active members on the forums. To think that the views of such a small fraction of the hobby are relevant is not realistic. Heck even sponsers on the forums willingy sell frogs to known mixers and a lot of them will even give advice on how to setup a mixed setup. I have found that more lurkers have emailed me directly to ask questions rather than getting caught up in all the BS that gets spewed around in almost any mixing or hybrid thread. I do not think many are scared aaway. They simply have chosen not to be part of the conversation and only use the forum to research questions they may have.

[cablemandan]

I'm new to the hobby, and it didn't scare me away. I had visions of a large tank with multiple colored frogs cruising around the habitat. But after reading forums and such, my opinion has been drastically changed. The way I see it now it gives me the opportunity to build more exiciting vivs to house the different species I would like to keep which is half of the fun.

[jellyman]

I'm new to the hobby, and it didn't scare me away. I had visions of a large tank with multiple colored frogs cruising around the habitat. But after reading forums and such, my opinion has been drastically changed. The way I see it now it gives me the opportunity to build more exiciting vivs to house the different species I would like to keep which is half of the fun.

That is a great answer. You took in what was out their and formulated your own opinion. That is how it should be.

[frogface]

I say keep preaching the anti-mixing.

When I first got interested in the hobby, I figured I'd get a few of each and put them in one viv. Then I saw a few mixing threads and did some more research, and learned why it wasn't a good idea for me. If I hadn't seen the anti-mixing threads, I would not have given it another thought; a pretty blue one and a pretty yellow one..

Now, a noob like me will (hopefully) decide against mixing, after reading the threads. Then, after we'd been around a while, and, had turned in our noob stripes, we would have researched even more and learned even more. If so inclined, maybe at that point we would feel ok to mix (I am against mixing PDFs at any level but that's just my opinion), but, as a noob, we would have known to wait because we saw those threads.

[Stu&Shaz]

I don't think that is the case Phil. Guys i think are more likely to be put off by the culturing. There is a lot to learn in this hobby a lot to address before one actually gets frogs,so if someone is determined to keep dartfrogs they wouldn't be put off by some chap explaining why it is not a good idea to mix. Agreed forums are scarey places,at times Personally I have no wish to get into slanging matches life is too short,but some of the debates are very enlightening.I gave up keeping frogs as a child; then it was an absolute nightmare to find info,being able to talk to people on the otherside of the world whom have learned hard and well is a privalage to me,something i yearned for as a kid. For sure I have had far more encouragement than earbashing,and frankly it would take alot more than someone telling me i can't mix frogs and the reasons why to stop me and i guess most other newcomers would be the same if they really want it. Lets face it these little frogs are precious,and take a certain amount of work and care to look after so if someone is that easily put off ,then this is probably not for them anyway.

So far i have met some wonderful people in this hobby,both in person and on the net,was even offered frogs for free when i guy saw how long it was taking me to get up and running.So personally I'm proud to be part of this hobby of dartsters who give a damn
bring it on
Stu

[RichFrye]

Would it be a big loss if it was true?

+1

[DKOOISTRA]

I dont post all that much, do more thru pm when somebody asks a question. I started over there, and while Im not "scared" to post there, I just dont like the "environment" that its come to be. I think that it could possibly discourage new people from posting though. Here, its way more level headed, an actual debate, where both sides are discussed in a rational, logical, respectful manor (comparatively) and without the use of caplocks. There, I can see where it would be very confusing to a noob. There are so many different opinions from so many different people its hard to determine whats what, and who's who (who really knows and whos just talking out their butt-which happens alot).
derek

[RichFrye]

If 'noobs' take the actual time and effort it takes to succeed, and read instead of asking questions, they will see who has been around for years, who is actually producing vs. talking and who they should learn to trust. I don't care who the hell you are, if I just read your words for the first time today I'm taking them all with a grain of tiny , tiny salt. It takes months , if not years, if not decades (yup) to gather good info.
That said, skin thicker than a bowl of puddin' is absolutely needed to make it in this hobby and if someone was really, actually "scared away" by written words on moderated forums...I'm gussin' darts are not for them.


Rich

[RarePlantBroker]

I too had thought of a single display vivarium with multiple frog species when entering this hobby in 2007. I even had a dealer/seller tell me it was okay to mix 3 species in my 75 gallon vivarium when I bought my first frogs (2 Azureus, 2 Auratus, and a Leucomelas). It wasn't until I found online boards (actually I found this site first--then DB) and started reading did I realize there were issues with my arrangement. I then bought a couple of 20H tanks, and moved everyone into their own habitat--and then bought some more frogs....
If there had been a so-so response to the idea of mixing frogs on the sites, I most likely would have continued to keep a mixed vivarium--as I wasn't witnessing any aggression in a large, heavily planted vivarium. Nor would i have run fecal examinations on my original frogs (and all new frogs since).
It was the passionate responses on the boards to quarantine procedures, running fecal exams, and especially mixing that encouraged me to do things properly. The only negative was that I stayed lurking until I corrected my own vivariums--as I can't stand hypocrisy.

[dynekevin]

Hey guys!

Thought i would through my two cents in from the perspective of a noob (i would like to note that i feel like i am a well informed noob =P).

Anyways, I kind of stumbled into this hobby by searching you tube. Some way or another i found a vivarium video and i thought it was absolutely fascinating that people could build their own little ecosystem within their household. After countless vivarium videos i noticed many were showcasing their prized possessions - dart frogs. Soon after i began to look further in-depth of this hobby. After i few google searches i was led to forums were i began reading...

Now, to be completely honest if it was not for such strong opinions and pure passion for these animals i may not have taken certain things as seriously. The strong views on mixing tanks produced very entertaining, and educational reads. Furthermore, these passionate posts led to more readings on every aspect of the hobby which continued to increase my interest. In my opinion, if it was not for such strong feelings and other hobbyists great will to spread their knowledge the hobby would not be where it is today. I feel many more frogs would be neglected proper housing/feeding/ect for the pure fact of human ignorance. Hypothetically speaking, if it was not for these forums i would have been poorly educated by local reptile stores and followed down a path that so many do. Leading to impulse buying and unpromising circumstances for the dart frogs. My kudos to forums like these.

Thanks for reading,

-Kevin

[phelsumaman]

Hi guys, as a long time reptile keeper I always thought it was common knowledge that mixing was frowned upon (or at least set aside for much more experienced keepers) I can never condone mixing of darts as which ever species you decide to mix are too closely related to be a safe choice (with regards to parasites) I can see mixing of other species working to a certain extent for a very experienced keeper but most people new to the hobby won't have the level of knowledge necessary to succeed in this area, I'd really like to discuss how we can get this across to newbs without sounding preachy
Ben