Dendrobates azureus courting and Egg Developement - Pics

[joneill809]

New viv. Just transferred the parents 2 months ago maybe? I added the pool to the design to try tank raising. This is the first tad deposited. There were three in about the same time (three weeks ago?) then a fresh set today (another two). Only 2 remaining lol. Maybe this one is just a beast. It's very mobile, swimming around eating anything in its path. There are visible springs hopping around on the surface of the water, flies, some plant material. Guess I can pull it. Kind of humorous that it's munching on tads right next to the purple princess and pink treasure chest

[frogfreak]

lol That explains it. My tanks were well aged before letting them tank raise. There's tons of gunk for them to eat.

[joneill809]

Well I have two other tads that are holding their own. They seem to always be on the opposite side of the pool as the great white tad - I guess these two have better situational awareness. The pink treasure chest is turning out to be a good visual barrier Mega mouth (going for as many shark analogies as I can) seems to be content dragging helpless flies under...I'm waiting for the next evolution of her hunting technique to capture on video :

[DianeCarter]

I'm thinking that you need to keep MegaMouth once she morphs out--she should be your #2 azureus breeder-whether male or female!
Enjoyed the video of her catching a fly--an eating machine, apparently!
What will her next hunting technique be? Hopping OOW onto land, eating a few springs, and diving back in water? Hopping into a can to consume the inhabitants, then back to the water?
Looking forward to your next installment!
Diane

[joneill809]

I'm waiting for Little Spot to lose a digit mid transport as he tepidly dips into the pool with MegaMouth There's probably a land shark / snl reference in there somewhere ...

I was thinking the same thing - I have got to keep this frog after it morphs. :lol:

[DianeCarter]

Yes Jim, dare I say it............this frog may put Big Spot to shame!! This frog...MegaMouth.......may be the ultimate Azzie! You MUST keep it! It may have the ultimate azureus STARE DOWN! Maybe even better than Little Spot! His/her father's GLARE!!!!!!

[joneill809]

I have been allowing this pair to manage their own eggs / tads and they have been transporting. I managed to miss pulling the first two tads which morphed out in viv, and one retained its lighter color while OOW which is always fun to see:
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Here is the first froglet that morphed out within the viv:
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Here's another shot of the pool the tads morphed out of. Typically I let the transport happen and the initial grow out (first 4 to 6 weeks) to occur in viv:
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I'll get around to catching them eventually.

[joneill809]

We're at about three weeks OOW for these two. The white one (Moby?) has not changed much in coloration yet:
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My daughter made me promise to keep this one

Here's a clutch mate for comparison:
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I'll keep snapping periodic photos of the white one as it develops.

[Philsuma]

that 'whiteness' is indeed...odd.

[hun73r]

I like it. Hopefully that little one retains his/her difference.

[joneill809]

Yeah, it's funny how endearing the "weird ones" are :lol:. I suspect it will eventually turn blue - I've had a few morph out light, but none have lasted this long yet. I have not morphed out that many though, probably only around 70 +/-, so it will be interesting to see how this turns out. This was the second "in viv" froglet that morphed out for me - I stopped pulling eggs last fall and let the pair self manage. This dramatically dropped the yields with trampled eggs, bad/missed transports, and tad cannibalism. What I did notice was these initial two froglets pictured above were larger then most of my cup raised froglets. Though this white one is an anomaly, it's a pretty robust individual.

Just for kicks I pulled 3 six week old tads from the pond and dropped them in cups to see how they morph out size wise. I guess I should get more scientific about it

Overall the azureus froglets from this pair are highly variable in coloration - I have another that came out with very small spots / high blue in the prior clutch, with a clutch mate that has giant spots. The variation is quite interesting.

[joneill809]

Moby is bluing up a bit in grow out. Here's the picture from above:


And how she looks today:
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Still whiter than her clutch mates, but you can see the blue tint coming in. Here's a comparison shot from another froglet to see the difference in blue:
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[joneill809]

Moby continues to slowly turn blue, but there still is a noticeable difference. Here's an updated set of comparison shots:
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[tazman]

Thanks for the pics I love the color and spot variation of the Azureus. I've been raising them for four years now and can't seem to get interested enough in other frogs to buy any. Although the blue pumilio looks great, also Koetari River and new river, seems there is a color pattern here!

[joneill809]

Since I'm on a roll tonight how about shots of some blue frogs too? These guys just keep chugging along. They've got some spunk - staring right back at you when you peek in their viv. I have no idea why they like this dinky little brom so much, but they do all their depositing there, on the uppermost ledge in their viv:
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And a few individual shots:
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[Philsuma]

Wow...so horrible that these pics did not survive the migration.

Some thoughts on sexual ratios for Dendrobates tinctorius. It's been a few years since I kept them, but I think that the single female is obviously paramount. Then, this species is one that can easily tolerate multiple males per single female - 2.1 or even 3.1

The 'extra' males are important I feel, as breeding stress seems to be a little 'heavier' on them and if the female has access to another 1 or 2 males, that will lessen the stress on the males.

Jim, you have a lot of Tinc experience. Your thoughts?

[joneill809]

I probably go against the grain on groups of tincs. I've kept different locales in 1.1, 2.1, 1.2, and 2.2 (Bakhuis group together for 8 years and counting!). I've shifted animals around based on my observations. It can be nuanced to determine when a tinc is under duress. I've had to separate 1.1's when the female was simply harassing a male to the point where he couldn't eat. My advice:

• Take your time.
  
• Use large enclosures. Create hardscapes with visual barriers, roosts, and tiered ledges.
  
• Observe your animals. Know your animals. If you cannot id YOUR tincs by sight, you're not paying close enough attention.
  
• Have extra enclosures for isolating animals. For some locales / pairs, seasonal isolation can be a good thing.
  
• Know what a properly managed tinc's body dimensions should be.
  
• Notice weight trends. How muscled are limbs? Can I see knees? Can I see backbones?
  
• Notice behavior trends. Are they hiding? Is a frog delaying eating? Wrestling? Pinning?
  
• (If I see weight loss or pinning I separate animals immediately)
  

Keeping the animal count low (1.1, 2.1) is the way to go for new keepers, but tinc groups can be done successfully if you really pay attention. That said, with our average hobby dwell time at 2 years, most folks don't put in the time to gain that experience. 

An example that it useful because the starting point is what a lot of folks do - I started with 4 Lorenzo froglets. They turned out to be a 1.3. One of the original females struggled and was bullied as they grew out - she would eat last, hide and could not keep the weight on. I never saw her get pinned, but I pulled her. The remaining 1.2 was together and breeding side by side in the same coco hut for 2 more years before I separated the females when I acquired 2 adult males. My point is that more than one female tinc in the same enclosure can be done, but it should not be done in a cavalier manner. I knew when to pull the third female by observing her behavior. I knew when not to panic when the other two females would periodically wrestle for 5 seconds, then go about their business. It's really about recognizing the signs of stress in your tincs.

I also recommend wet and dry seasons. I know my other design method of active venting of vivariums also goes against the grain, but I can leverage this to control the RH really well. I use manual fan speed controllers and different misting schedules depending on the season I want to emulate. Right now the fan speeds are lower to boost the RH to 85%-90% for the wet season. I'll taper that back in August by ramping up the fan speeds, I'll pull bowers / petri dishes, and possibly separate males depending on how the females look after breeding season (keep in mind I am mostly keeping Lorenzo these days so I really have to manage the breeding seasons to keep my females healthy so my examples may be extreme to many hobbyists). This does require having extra rotational vivs for isolating animals. I keep most pairs or trios in 18x18x24 vivs, and my QT vivs are custom 10+ gallon tanks for isolating animals as necessary. I keep 2 running all the time, and I have four more in a storage closet in case something comes up. I like real vivs for QT better than bins - my animals just do better in them - false bottoms, hardscaped, LL, creeping fig.