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2.1.0 Cobalt
1.1.0 Aurotaenia
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I dont see issues w more importations when its done in a responsible and LEGAL manner (ie.. SNDF, Understory etc). The qualification of "certain countries" and "certain species" is key. I saw this option as the best reality for the hobbyist. Lets be honest with ourselves, we have frogs because at one time they had to get imported as Wild Caught specimens (and still do). We all have to live with some selfish hypocrisy to justify keeping a frog in a glass box. Is it the best use of our money?? For me its a discovery of nature and our creator. I also escape from work wout the use of a TV. ok. enough philosophy... Wc or No? Ideal is having a community that can educate people about the pitfalls of WC in the hands of inexperienced froggers. They may be less expensive up front, but long term, captive bred frogs by qualified breeders are a more cost efficient option for most people. With obligates, such as Pumilio, it is becoming apparent in many discussions and lack thereof in classifieds, that several morphs brought in from 2005/2008 are now difficult to find. The common Cristobal and El Dorado of today will in time become scarce. My opinion about WC frogs doesn't mean I think we should import one of every species either. I can enjoy frogs wout having 35 vivs. For those who may feel my opinion implies I am detrimental to frog habitat, realize I am careful with whom I support. I vote with my pocket book. I use wind energy. I drive an economy car out of principle. I go to lots of trouble organize my trash into the recycle bin. I clean my FF cups If i was wearing my "green peace' hat, I would put my money on groups who form land trusts as means to protect the frogs. I just dont see the hobby as a main culprit, but I think as a frogger, we are made AWARE of the situation and are perhaps on some level more accountable (than the avg joe on the street )to our progeny to do something to protect the environment. I see my bright orange Cristobal as a beautiful portal for people to begin to vicariously appreciate the beauty of rain-forests and nurture a consciousness to care enough to want to preserve them.
Scott - North Dallas
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-Field Smith
Some frogs...
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As of now, there are zero universally accepted studies (as oposed to researchers such as Dr. Summers and his published work on Pumilio) on sustainable harvest, on Panama pums. Sustainable harvest should be the operative term and most important variable next to the actual way the frogs are shipped and housed after shipping.
There are many populations (more than not) that would be difficult if not almost impossible to "over harvest", think 'over harvesting field mice...(where do we think the term "rat frog" came from) but there are also some populations in trouble, such as Robalos.
It's a case by case situation.
Lehmanni are in big trouble, Highland Lamasi also, Robalo as mentioned, but more populations of Panama pums are totally sustainable than not. It's just that Panama does not give two shits about quotas, so if Sergio finds the Robalo population it could bode very bad for it.
The key term be they thumbs, tincs, grannies or auratus , legal or not , is sustainable harvest. Then getting them to people who can manage them. All of our frogs came from the wild originally. Many via not-so-ethical or legal ways.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
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Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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The Animals Committee should be encouraged to:
• take note of the trade in Dendrobates spp. from Panama, with a view to considering whether this
population might merit inclusion in the Significant Trade Review Process in future.
Table 2.
Gross CITES-reported exports of D. pumilio from range States, all sources (1995-2004).
Country Term 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
Costa Rican live O. pumilio - 1995=80, 1996= 98,1997= 60, 1998= 54, year 2000 and on= 0, 0, 4, 0, 0,0
Nicaraguan live O. pumilio 1995=2704, 7587, 2181, 619, 4890, 3550, 1113, 0, 0 ,0
Panamanian live O. pumilio 1995=0,8 ,0 ,4, 12, 60, 0, 0, 0, Year 2004= 2990 !! - the start of the 'big importation'
Source: CITES annual report data compiled by UNEP-WCMC.
References
Solís, F., Ibáñez, R., Jaramillo, C., Chaves, G., Savage, J., Köhler, G., Jungfer, K.-H. and Bolívar, W.
(2004). Dendrobates auratus. In: IUCN. (2006). 2006 IUCN Red List of Threatened Species.
http://www.iucnredlist.org. Viewed 05 December 2006.
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Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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Philsuma Wrote:The Animals Committee should be encouraged to:
• take note of the trade in Dendrobates spp. from Panama, with a view to considering whether this
population might merit inclusion in the Significant Trade Review Process in future.
Table 2.
Gross CITES-reported exports of D. pumilio from range States, all sources (1995-2004).
Country Term 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
Costa Rican live O. pumilio - 1995=80, 1996= 98,1997= 60, 1998= 54, year 2000 and on= 0, 0, 4, 0, 0,0
Nicaraguan live O. pumilio 1995=2704, 7587, 2181, 619, 4890, 3550, 1113, 0, 0 ,0
Panamanian live O. pumilio 1995=0,8 ,0 ,4, 12, 60, 0, 0, 0, Year 2004= 2990 !! - the start of the 'big importation'
Source: CITES annual report data compiled by UNEP-WCMC.
References
Solís, F., Ibáñez, R., Jaramillo, C., Chaves, G., Savage, J., Köhler, G., Jungfer, K.-H. and Bolívar, W.
(2004). Dendrobates auratus. In: IUCN. (2006). 2006 IUCN Red List of Threatened Species.
http://www.iucnredlist.org. Viewed 05 December 2006.
Yeah, here is another article, citing 15K exported from '04-'08...this article, compliments of Ed, is probably worthy of its own thread...
http://www.vincentnijman.org/files/a88_ ... serv_2.pdf
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cbreon Wrote:Philsuma Wrote:The Animals Committee should be encouraged to:
• take note of the trade in Dendrobates spp. from Panama, with a view to considering whether this
population might merit inclusion in the Significant Trade Review Process in future.
Table 2.
Gross CITES-reported exports of D. pumilio from range States, all sources (1995-2004).
Country Term 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
Costa Rican live O. pumilio - 1995=80, 1996= 98,1997= 60, 1998= 54, year 2000 and on= 0, 0, 4, 0, 0,0
Nicaraguan live O. pumilio 1995=2704, 7587, 2181, 619, 4890, 3550, 1113, 0, 0 ,0
Panamanian live O. pumilio 1995=0,8 ,0 ,4, 12, 60, 0, 0, 0, Year 2004= 2990 !! - the start of the 'big importation'
Source: CITES annual report data compiled by UNEP-WCMC.
References
Solís, F., Ibáñez, R., Jaramillo, C., Chaves, G., Savage, J., Köhler, G., Jungfer, K.-H. and Bolívar, W.
(2004). Dendrobates auratus. In: IUCN. (2006). 2006 IUCN Red List of Threatened Species.
http://www.iucnredlist.org. Viewed 05 December 2006.
Yeah, here is another article, citing 15K exported from '04-'08...this article, compliments of Ed, is probably worthy of its own thread...
http://www.vincentnijman.org/files/a88_ ... serv_2.pdf
Five years ('04-'08) divided by 15k = 3k per year. Sounds about right to me.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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