Poll - too much Tattling in the Dart Frog Hobby ?

[Philsuma]

I made a basic ,"Yes, No , Maybe " type of poll for this topic. I'm getting a lot of PM's and emails lately asking why "so-and-so is saying this" and "did you know about so-and-so".

I kinda like our polls here....I think we (somehow) get more "real" voting and results here. Don't ask me why or how though.

Remember...this poll is anonymous 8) ...your answer is safe. Feel free to add a post here too, with a more in depth view point.

[Tony]

I went with "Somewhat". I don't really consider it to be tattling when someone outs a thief or a dishonest vendor, but things like reporting fellow froggers to USFW is crossing the line IMO.

[Philsuma]

Yeah....so far we have a few recent "Biggies" to mull over:

1. The Stolen blue Jeans - I think 90% are in agreement on this, However, I still hear an occasional - "Nobody actually saw him.."

2. The USF&W thing- HIGHLY debatable

3. The smuggling issue / smuggled frogs offered - also highly debatable

4. He-said-she-said, Hybrid issues, Selling and shipping sick or half dead frogs more than once.

5. "So and So's frogs have Chytrid, Hookworms, Clymidia, the big "C"...ect.

[Tony]

I don't really think there is much to debate on the USFW mess, or a similar incident not long ago where a legend in the hobby was accused of having smuggled frogs on Frognet. Debate the legal/ethical grey area all you want, but if someone is kind enough to open their home and share their knowledge and/or frogs with you, you owe them the courtesy of not running off and snitching. I can't blame the people who refuse to post on the boards or Frognet when they are treated in such a way.

[Philsuma]

I agree with the way you put that.

Calling USWF is literally like taking a shot at someone.....ya better be right and ya better hit the correct target.

You DON'T want to be wrong or come incorrect on that mess and look like the smacked ass....

I've heard 2nd and 3rd hand talk about both of those incidents and do not have enough info to make an informed, logical decision on either as of yet.

[jeffr]

When it comes to outing people with bad business practices I don't think there is enough tattling

[Philsuma]

When it comes to outing people with bad business practices I don't think there is enough tattling

That may be a tough one....a LONG thread.

I'm trying hard to think of a SINGLE Big name that I have NOT heard some bad stuff about - some of it probably undeserved "tattling"....

[porkchop49]

There is a lot of tattling in this hobby. A lot.

And a lot of finger pointing.

One incident recently was the Hybrid thread over on the other board. I was slightly concerned as some one mentioned that the vendor at the pittsburgh show or hamburg show was a she. Being that there is only one " she " vendor at the Pittsburgh show, I recieved numerous PM's accusing me of breeding hybrids. I replied back to numerous PM's inviting any one to come visit my house at any time to see what I keep and how I keep them. I am sure these people who sent me pm's were running their mouth behind the scenes and I am labeled as a Hybridist now. I could argue till I am blue in the face. Won't change a damn thing.

I can say that I have had two packages that I sent out over the last 6 months that did not go as planned. Package one an el dorado arrived dead. I offered to replace it as soon as I had one old enough. It took forever for me to get a new froglet to the shippable age. I kept in touch with the buyer. Eventually seen a post where the buyer was going to a meet and offered to paypal him the money if an eldo was available to purchase... All worked out well. or at least i think it did. Now that trade right there could have gone bad and I could have been bad mouthed and labeled a bad seller. And I am sure some one some where still thinks I am in the wrong. Point being, no one is perfect.

[Philsuma]

I requested that people with the Hybrid info, come over here and post it, so that the community / hobby is aware.

No one owns this hobby and everyone is welcome to post here, regardless of their viewpoint, belief or opinion. No one is going to stalk you here, send you PM's, threaten you, beat you up in the member's only sub-forum. That much won't be allowed - I'll make sure of that.

But....

People need to stand up and "take the weight" of discourses, opposing viewpoints and arguments....yes....arguments.

I can understand if the "hybridizers" were scared to post here, because they didn't think I would do those things I just said in the paragraph above, but....man, o' man.......I really hope that people aren't actively hiding those people who are selling and injecting (not meant to be an inflamatory term, but I feel it's accurate) hybrids into the hobby without the community being made aware. Thats NOT tattling.

That's stating facts, if you know them.

[DKOOISTRA]

As evidence of your fairness Phil, I have seen past "arguments" between you and jellyman on another forum, and have seen the two of you discussing things here, fairly recently. You have been very fair in my opinion. Almost to where I would say the two of you were getting along . I say this only to point out or "prove" that what you are saying you are holding to.
A fair, and open forum for all. I think you have done a very good job of this.

No one owns this hobby and everyone is welcome to post here, regardless of their viewpoint, belief or opinion. No one is going to stalk you here, send you PM's, threaten you, beat you up in the member's only sub-forum. That much won't be allowed - I'll make sure of that.

derek

[frogface]

No - If someone is doing something illegal, cheating someone, stealing, then they should be outed and arrested.

I don't think anyone should get a free pass to cheat, steal or do something illegal, just because they have some frogs.

[Philsuma]

There are people in this hobby that want to 'fly under the radar" and do their particular thing 'off the grid"...

And that's fine and Dandy, but remember, you Cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you want to do all the 'anonymous" stuff and not want things to be part of the nasty, bullying aspect of the hobby...then here's my advice. Stay OFF the forums altogether -100%.

Some people want it all ! They want to be on the Forums, BUT they don't want all the stuff they do publicized or even hinted at, so they become someone in charge and then they quash information and reporting. They stifle people and threaten people...YES THREATEN other forums.

Now, who is the bully and the shifty hobbyist ?

[SmackoftheGods]

Not enough tattling. I've been screwed several times when I should have been if people had simply been honest and open about their transactions. The "he-said-she-said bull shit" is just that... bull shit. But if you have evidence to back it up, then out with it already.

[Philsuma]

It's going to take a long (longer than I would like) time for people to 'come out of their shell' on the issue of proper feedback. I think that years and years of DB not allowing such talk / feedback has set us back and made people gun-shy to post 'bad stuff' about other people, even if it's 100% warranted. Tough road to hoe, but we are slowly getting there.

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Well because of DB's policy of not allowing any negativity it makes DD look like Days Of Our Lives. Nothing could be further from the truth. People may have a negative perception of this forum because nothing is sugar coated here. Liars, thieves, smugglers, don't get a pass here.
More tattling? In appropriate places yes. This Dart Frog hobby is a fraternity. A family. If we don't watch each others backs we'll all end up getting screwed.


Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk

[Philsuma]

The BEST...let me say that word again...BEST, thing to EVER happen to the exotic animal hobbies (all of them) was true feedback allowed in Fauna Classifieds Board of Inquiry. Think of all the people and animals that place saved !!! Think of the bottomless pit we would all be in without them.

When I had the opportunity to own and run a forum, I told myself...'We WILL have accurate and true vendor feedback here".

[Ghostvivs]

And some people will never speak up because they want the "better" frogs. Can't say anything if ya want something...

Unfortunately that will not change. Hell it's what keeps some in business...

It's going to take a long (longer than I would like) time for people to 'come out of their shell' on the issue of proper feedback. I think that years and years of DB not allowing such talk / feedback has set us back and made people gun-shy to post 'bad stuff' about other people, even if it's 100% warranted. Tough road to hoe, but we are slowly getting there.