Vivarium vs Terrarium ?

[Philsuma]

I always thought:

Vivarium - latin for "life" was indicative of an enclosure with Animals. It could contain plants, but it def had - 100% animals in it.

Terrarium - Only contained plants. No animals at all.

thoughts ?

[GrandmasterTree]

That is how i understood it


WEBSTER:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vivarium

Definition of VIVARIUM
: a terrarium used especially for small animals
See vivarium defined for kids »

Origin of VIVARIUM
Latin, park, preserve, from vivus alive — more at quick
First Known Use: 1853

[DKOOISTRA]

I believe the terrarium itself evolved from the "wardian box" (?) not sure on the spelling on that, going off memory.
I'm 99% sure that's what it was called. They have a display at our local gardens explaining how people traveling (overseas generally) would take a some of their favorite plants with them on their voyages, or relocation's (if they were moving). The display is about 2' x 4', looks like a little green house.
Derek

Did a quick search and I got it right Wardian box/case is correct.

[JJuchems]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... 1307981857

It is accepted to use both terms interchangeably. We actually had this conversation at the bar after a herpetological society meeting.

[Philsuma]

Interchangeable sucks in my opinion as it just serves to muddy the water.

Assigning the animal vs all plant definition just seems logical.

The Reef hobby has live rock, FOWLR and a couple other categories that are a big help to them...

[Cindy Dicken]

Most people (espeically if they grew up in the '70's) know what a terrarium is, so when someone asks what a vivarium is, I tell them it is a terrarium suitable to accomodate an animal (s) in our case a reptile or amphibian. [ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]

[Philsuma]

I just thought the plant people "owned" the word Terrarium and that when Philippe de Vosjoli , the very namesake magazine - The Vivarium and the "4th wave" of naturalistic enclosures came along (early 1990's).....that WE made and owned the term "Vivarium" to further differentiate our keeping live animals in planted enclosures.

Wow.....I really though we owned the word vivarium.....

[JJuchems]

At one time it seemed it was a more strictly defined, however it became more interchangeable and is reflected in the definitions. I look at this when the Exo-Terra terrariums hit the market thinking that vivariums was a better term going back to the magazine. However, it has changed and it accepted as interchangeable. Print media and products have accepted it this way. Interesting the August 2011 Issue of Reptiles has a enclosure called a terrarium in an article by Devin Edmonds and an article by Rex Lee Searcey calling enclosures vivariums. Oddly enough (I doubt the author created the table), the table label them as vivariums/terrariums.

Few more definitions:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrarium

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/ ... =terrarium

[Philsuma]

first off, we gotta stop with the dictionary references. Modern dictionaries have no inkling about the ever changing progression of the exotic animal hobbies. In 10 years, we may be able to look back and see that they referenced it correctly, but for now....dictionary entries are not helpful.

I just find it hard to accept that a hard fought (progressive) term like "Vivarium" has DEVOLVED....I mean....how is it that we "gave up" and let the term slide into a muddy river of ambiguity ?

[JJuchems]

The largest publication of herpetoculture interchangeably uses the terms through out the 2011 issues. I don't have the 2010's handy right now, but I would say they too use the terms interchangeably. The 2003 Barron's Reptile and Amphibians Keeper's Guides: Poison Dart Frogs Chapter 4 Caging: The Rain Forest Terrarium. These even goes back to 1999 with THF Success With an Amphibian Pet: Poison Dart Frogs Chapter 3 The Terrarium.

[Philsuma]

Jason, you're killin me. You are citing Reptiles magazine as "largest publication of herpetoculture" and presumably the final word in hobby definitions ? Reptiles magazine has been sufficiently dumbed down for consumption by the masses as to make it one step away from the shallowest of kiddie pools. I cringe at the fact that it outlived the "Vivarium" magazine.

Maybe I just answered my own question: What happened to the very word / term "Vivarium"....hmm...almost paradoxically, like the Golden Toad. Gone. Sad.

[JJuchems]

Bow Tie Publications, the parent company of Reptiles Magazine has successfully purchased many of the leading publications for many of the animals hobbies including Advance Vivarium Systems and Vivarium Magazine. There is something to be said for the empire they have created, and the fact they still exist.

I also cited the other two largest publishers (Barrons and THF) of herpetolocultural related publications in the USA. All books written by hobbyist. THF even has a book "Natural Terrariums."

Reptilia Magazine also interchanges the use of Terrarium and Vivarium and Bri Bri.

Edit: I think it is more common than you thought Phil.

[Azurel]

I separate the 2 terms and don't use them interchangeably....

[GrandmasterTree]

Phil, while i agree with your first post ...I would say you are off on the rest

The Vivarium and the "4th wave" of naturalistic enclosures came along (early 1990's).....that WE made and owned the term "Vivarium" to further differentiate our keeping live animals in planted enclosures.

-The term was used way back with the gladiators... I'd say that WE did not make the term and I would hardly call the term progressive given its age/history.

first off, we gotta stop with the dictionary references

-This word, Vivarium, has been use for hundreds of years, when would you expect a valid definition to be represented in a dictionary?


Note, I do think that most of us use "vivarium" to refer to an enclosure with plants & animals and "terrarium" as an enclosure with plants only.




Some sites that i looked at trying to get at the origin of the word: vivarium

http://www.word-origins.com/definition/aquarium.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquarium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivarium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivarium_%28Rome%29

[JJuchems]

Phil, while i agree with your first post ...I would say you are off on the rest

-The term was used way back with the gladiators... I'd say that WE did not make the term and I would hardly call the term progressive given its age/history.

Agreed.

first off, we gotta stop with the dictionary references

-This word, Vivarium, has been use for hundreds of years, when would you expect a valid definition to be represented in a dictionary?

Yes, dictionaries aid in the evolution of languages. Word means change, evolve, and can no longer mean the original meaning. Dictionaries are a good representation of language and word usage.

Note, I do think that most of us use "vivarium" to refer to an enclosure with plants & animals and "terrarium" as an enclosure with plants only.

Do you have an evidence of this? I have shown the interchanging of the terms.

[Azurel]

Just because people have used it interchangably don't mean it is correct or those that do it are correct.

[Philsuma]

I guess it bears researching, but I can't imagine Ancient Romans keeping Herps in glass boxes called "Vivarium". Are you sure that term didn't refer to something else - like "Human" living conditions in an enclosure, like a "biosphere" ?

English dictionaries need 10 or more years to catch up with modern slang and urban terminology. I'm not sure Webster's has a grasp on the uniquely American version of the Dendrobatid hobby, for instance. They have the word "Vivarium", as it applies and was entered years and years ago, but that doesn't mean that the breakthroughs or changes of the American Herpetoculture hobby started in the 1980's and 1990's are represented with accurate terminology reflecting their particular efforts.

and finally....

Dart Den can push to use anything it (me, you, the rest of the Dart Frog Hobby Community) likes and further define and modify any hobby terminology it wishes.

For me...the choice was always easy:

Vivarium - an enclosure containing at least one living animal. It may contain plants, but there must be an animal.

Terrarium - an enclosure containing only plants. No animals.

[Azurel]

The ancient Romans did use the term Vivarium but that was where they kept the wild animals that they would use for their entertainment. So the meaning has changed but only refined in it's meaning to a more scientific adaption.

vivarium
c.1600, “game park,” from L. vivarium “enclosure for live game, park, warren, preserve, fish pond,” neut. sing. of vivarius, from vivus “alive, living” (see vivid). Meaning “glass bowl for studying living creatures” is from 1853.

Terrarium
1890, from Mod.L., formed from L. terra "land" (see terrain) + -arium, abstracted from aquarium.



Side note....
aquarium
1854, noun use of neuter of L. aquarius "pertaining to water," as a noun, "water-carrier," genitive of aqua "water" (see aqua-). The word existed in Latin, but there it meant "drinking place for cattle." An earlier attempt at a name for "fish tank" was marine vivarium.

[GrandmasterTree]

GrandmasterTree wrote:Note, I do think that most of us use "vivarium" to refer to an enclosure with plants & animals and "terrarium" as an enclosure with plants only.

-Do you have an evidence of this? I have shown the interchanging of the terms.

Hi Jason,

My statement above is just based on folks I have talked with and what i have read on these forms. I think if you ask most people to define the 2 terms they will give you Phil's definitions as posted above. I am not saying that the terms can not/have not been used interchangeably in our hobby. Based on the little bit of research I did you can see that a viv is a broad term that could also define a fish tank.


Tony

[JJuchems]

Since no one is interested in dictionary, how about a herpetological dictionary:

Elsevier's Dictionary of Herpetological and Related Terminology Copyright 2005 (ISBN:0444518630)

TERRARIUM (pl.) TERRARIA A generally closed container of any shape or size and usually furnished with plants, in which amphibians, reptiles or other small animals are housed. (pg. 201)

VIVARIUM (pl.) VIVARIA A tank, cage or enclosure in which live animals (generally reptiles and/or amphibians) are kept under sterile or natural conditions for research, study etc., or a building containing a collection of such tanks and enclosures. (pg 218)