Springtail - Charcoal only fail

[Stu&Shaz]

Very interesting this thread to us,we are trying to get this charcoal method down and struggling,i am feeding fish flakes and oatmeal breakfast cereal,in larger containers...i get massive build ups, peak,and if i don't split huge die back,first possible cause could be i close the lids,i will leave them a bit open now after reading this!i didn't realise it was possible to have a culture last without splitting ...work to be done here! we will also try the dry mushrooms
thankyou all
Stu

[phelsumaman]

Does anyone actually know what the springs produce to inhibit breeding ? I've been trying to find out for ages. I'm currently using a coco fiber / bark chip mix but feel that the charcoal method be better, if they are producing something you may well be diluting it when you flood the culture

[Philsuma]

Does anyone actually know what the springs produce to inhibit breeding ? I've been trying to find out for ages. I'm currently using a coco fiber / bark chip mix but feel that the charcoal method be better, if they are producing something you may well be diluting it when you flood the culture

Indeed ! Very plausable.

[phelsumaman]

If we knew what it was we may be able to either plan for it or introduce something / exclude something from their diet just wish I knew what it was. Ill put some feeders out to see what I can find
Ben

[Philsuma]

Could be as simple as waste buildup - toxicity.

[phelsumaman]

Good point didn't think of that, I suppose there is a perception that its something more than that but point taken, if I find anything different ill let you all know.
Ben

[EntoCraig]

I think I'll Chime in a bit on this one. Im a huge bug nerd and the Co-founder of The Utah Entomology Society.

Collembola are extremely sensitive to desiccation (drying out) I find that the water levels that are used for feeding in the charcoal culture enable the culture to maintain 100% humidity. I wonder if the leaf litter and other substrate culture do not have the water levels to maintain such humidity, despite a sealed container...

About the toxicity. You are spot on. Hundreds of thousands of spring tails can live together in multi species environments, all in a cubic foot. There should not be issues with massive die offs, unless it is related to an external factor. In fact springtails are used to test toxicity in soil ! Co2 buildup or bacteria buildup from overfeeding could be the issue.

Speaking of bacteria, a parasitic Wolbachia bacteria is often found in Collembola. The relationship is generally symbiotic, but if bacteria are over produced, results can cause infertile and sexually screwed up Springtails. I assume this is my a culture could be going really well and then tank if bacteria caused a batch to boom, but reproduction being impossible...

[tclipse]

Phil, I've had some folsomia cultures in going in charcoal for for probably ~1.5 years now (6 quarts from Lowe's @ $1.17 a pop in the container section) with no signs of dying out... when seeding a new viv, I literally pour the culture out onto it (minus the charcoal) until a good 1/3-1/2 of the water is gone, and replace it with new. Not sure if that has anything to do with it, but I guess it's possible. I also have a bit of turface mixed in and and add a pinch of calcium carb on one end of the culture every few month... I'm not sure if it helps, but I do know that some (if not all) arthropods need calcium to build their exoskeletons.

I feed small pieces of dog food as I find they last longer than flake/yeast etc, and provide a more constant food supply.... the occasional mushroom goes in as well. I try to place the food as close to the water as possible (seems to keep mites away, again this could just be me overanalyzing things, but I've heard they don't do well with water) without touching it, if the food is soaked it will probably foul the water pretty quickly.

Just posting what has worked very well for me (I currently keep Temperate whites, blues, blacks, and the smaller silvers, as well as tropical whites, all are doing fine and producing well with this method).... the temperate silvers & blacks do seem to like it slightly drier than the rest, I usually find them in the drier top 1/2 of the culture, so I lowered the water level a bit for them... the others get a full 1". Room temps fluctuate from 68-72.

[Philsuma]

I think enclosure size and frequency of flooding the charcoal are key.

Some of my earlier charcoal fails have been small, deli cup sized cultures and they were not flooded much at all.

[frogfreak]

I think a year plus is a pretty high mark for gauging the success of a Spring colony. 6 months is a little "short" on the whole IMO.

Thought I'd report back on this thread. They're around 16 months now. I still have some on Leca, but have made a lot on coco husk and they're producing better. They're at the one year mark and still going strong. I'm still using a non vented lid and a 32oz cup. Feeding nutritional yeast and Repashy FF medium.

[Philsuma]

I'm 100% set on "soil like" ABG type substrate for ALL my Isopod and Springtails. I just don't think all-charcoal works....neither do I like one single type stuff like 100% coco coir or leca ect.

I think that bugs do best on what mother nature intended them to live on - 'Dirt"....

[frogfreak]

Seeing as we're chatting about springs and it was spring day, I thought I's snap a couple of cell phone pics. These springs came from a dozen 32oz cultures on leca. Works for me.



And a little contraption I made so I don't saturate the froglet bins with water. I'm trying 190's now.



Oops, dropped one. lol

[Stu&Shaz]

Nice , clever sod...just so i got this right your flooding springs,on leca,then putting them into said gizmo springs float Glenn drains water....and then complains about the one that got away :lol:

Stu

[frogfreak]

Nice cllever sod...just so i got this right your flooding springs,on leca,then putting them into said gizmo springs float Glenn drains water....and then complains about the one that got away :lol:
Stu

You got it, Stu. A few get away, but hey, no biggie. 8)

[Stu&Shaz]

Nice cllever sod...just so i got this right your flooding springs,on leca,then putting them into said gizmo springs float Glenn drains water....and then complains about the one that got away :lol:
Stu

You got it, Stu. A few get away, but hey, no biggie. 8)

ha mine just ruddy jump out :lol: .Glenn clear something up for me,are your springs Folsumia candida and do you guys call these temperate white?

Ed K. linked me this elsewhere it might be interesting to you guys especially Ben,but there doesn't seem to be evidence that it applies to all species, (Ento)Craig thanks for the interesting post above as well
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3 ... 0811938981

Stu

[frogfreak]

The springs on leca are starting to Slowwwww down now...

Time for for a fresh culture medium, I'm guessing.

EDIT: I missed you question, Stu. Sorry about that. I know of them as temperate white only, but we have blue, pink, silver and greys as well.

[Stu&Shaz]

Glenn after all the help,you will never have reason to apologise to moi !! I believe folsumia candida are temperate white,i'm sure someone will correct if I'm wrong.
We are still going great charcoal only yeast plus a source of Ca,Cuttlefish bone grated at the mo. We have also got in 2 other species,they are also doing great with this method,I'm yet to investigate the co co husk buddy,but it will happen. i'm full bore on other frog related duties now for the near future anyway.

thanks for the reply mate

Stu

[RichFrye]

I use all types of media and different sized tubs. But recently I have made quite a few with just Maple leaves and just feeding yeast.

[dynekevin]

I have my cultures in 12" x 6" sterlite containers with charcoal and ~1/4" standing water. I have one culture at about 1.5 years of age and still produces well. It was my first culture ever. I feed pasta weekly and occasionally a banana peel or fish flakes. They usually boom after the banana peels but i only do that once a month or so.

[Lady Bullseye]

Rich, how do you harvest those in the maple leaves?