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First vivarium
#1

Hi. I am starting first vivarium soon and have A LOT of questions! If You can even just answer a few of them it would help tremendously!
- I am starting with a 40 gallon aquarium, what all would I need to complete the habitat?
- Why is the process of raising the fruit flies?
- How many frogs can be kept in a habitat of this size?
- What frogs go well together?
- What kind of price am I looking at per frog, at a reptile expo?
- Do I need barriers to separate the frogs?
Thank You, in advance!
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#2

Hi and welcome to Dart Den !

Here's a couple threads to get you started:

beginner-questions-and-comments-f27/my-first-dart-frogs-and-tank-how-much-t4394.html

beginner-questions-and-comments-f27/potential-dart-frog-hobbyist-read-this-first-t4134.html

All your Fruit Fly info is in this sub-forum: feeder-insects-nutrition-how-to-feed-your-frogs-f22/

1 frog per 10 gallons is a very good approximate starting point.

I would recommend that new hobbyists stick to one species of frog and not mix species, and yes...heavy plantings and barriers are always recommended.

Prices at a Reptile show are @ $25.00- $50.00 for most Leucomelas, Tinctorius and Auratus - all of which are considered the ideal beginner frogs.

Glad to be of help to you !

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#3

Hi! Welcome to the hobby.

Check out all the threads posted for you, they will be very helpful.

Where are you located?

A first viv is really exciting a such a fun build.
A 40 gallon aquarium is a great size. There are a few different options for backgrounds like clay verses coco fiber and peat & drainage like false bottom verses hydroton.
For a tank that size I would suggest using a false bottom made of egg crate; it's very light. And I like the spray foam, silicone and coco fiber method for a background. These are just my personal preferences though. To complete this you need silicone, coco fiber, gloves, spray foam, and eggcrate. You'll also need substrate and plants with whichever method you decide on.
Raising fruit flies is very easy, but it's suggested you give it a try to make sure you have it down before you acquire frogs. All you need to do is put mite prevention down, add water, vinegar, and active yeast to media and throw a few flies in. Done.
The number of frogs would depend on the species of frog. I would put three or four Leucomelas or two tincs in a tank that size.
It's recommended to not mix frogs.
Leucomelas would probably run you about $30 per frog at an expo.
Plants and driftwood would work as barriers in the tank.

I hope this is helpful Smile
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#4

Do the barriers need to completely seperate the frogs or are they just a place for the frogs to hide ? Basically, what I mean is are the frogs never supposed to come into contact with each other ?
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#5

Barriers are clumps of plants, cocohuts, rocks or wood features that serve to allow one frog to not see the other frogs.

I assume (no real way of knowing) that when 2 female tinctorius tussle and one jumps over to the other side of the vivarium, for instance, and there are plants and barriers between them....then the other frog thinks that it doesn't exist anymore. "Out of sight - out of mind", type of thing.

Contact is fine, as long as there are retreats and barriers and the vivarium is not one big open canyon or bowl and not much else.

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#6

Alright that makes since. All I need in the bottom of the habitat is a layer of sphagnum moss, correct? (along with the plants and stuff)
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#7

No. The bottom (refered to as the substrate) is composed of a few different items - one of which is spaghnum moss

Here's another good thread:

beginner-questions-and-comments-f27/starting-a-vivarium-t4589.html#p20176

ABG (Atlanta Botanical Garden) is a common substrate and easily made/bought/ordered online. Do a search for ABG- search button is on the top right of this page.

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#8

Here's the enclosure construction subforum;

enclosures-setup-and-construction-f23/

Check out D3monics build and Mitch's tips threads...both very good.

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#9

Should I be the only one to jump in and say--HEY...it sounds like you have done NO research on this whole subject of keeping any sort of LIVE ANIMAL who is at your complete mercy??? You all can be encouraging, but dammit...someone has to drop the hammer and point out this person has done ZERO background studying about the whole subject. God, I'm still studying before I take the leap--to make sure that these critters deserve what they will have inflicted upon them by me...I am THEIR God...gees, this is pathetic...sorry for the rant.
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#10

I'd also like to point out you'll need some sort of false bottom or hydroton layer for drainage. If you just throw substrate in the bottom of the tank you will have a lot of rotten plants very quickly.
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#11

I just read your post Judy, after submitting my own and must say it seems a little harsh.
While the OP has a lot of questions (which, yes, can be answered with the search feature) at least they are asking them BEFORE they acquire their frogs and not after.

It's great you are doing tons of research, but not everyone is as diligent as you and IMO it's better to answer and educate than leave them to their own devices where they might get frogs anyway and provide sub par care.
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#12

By joining this forum and asking SPECIFIC questions and getting SPECIFIC answers, I am educating myself about creating a great habitat for the animals I hope to obtain. I felt that this would be the best way to research because I could get the opinions of experts about what I need to know. I'm sorry, I am clearly not as good of a person as Judy.
FYI, I'm 13 years old and my parents usually aren't around so I pretty much have to rely on the Internet for any kind of help.
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#13

And Gnarly, I live in the dallas,tx area. Why do you ask?
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#14

That's always an issue....not knowing the age of the poster. 13 is kinda young to know all the in's and out's of proper research and questioning. If I harken back to my middle school years....I'm not sure my research abilities were too well formed at that age. I often wonder if we should make listing ages or an approx age manditory for forums so we can try to avoid this kind of thing.

No harm here folks...I have seen MUCH worse, but lets take a step back here and regroup, ok.

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#15

I certainly did not intend to come across as being "harsh"--but in reading your posts, it was sort of revealing that something was not quite "right" because of the naivete of the questions in respect to such an involved hobby. It was certainly not meant as a criticism--but as a --"wait, maybe I need much more info" kind of approach. The fact that we are dealing with live critters is the paramount importance..and before we take that responsibility on, we owe it to them to educate ourselves to make their lives comfortable. They may never be "happy", or "glad" that they are in these cages for our entertainment, but we do owe it to them to make their lives as pleasant and probably longer in captivity than in the wild. There is always a thrill in contemplating getting a new "pet"...and that is the spirit that I was addressing...sorry if I hurt your feelings, I am sort of on the same level as you...and am so eager to have these beautiful creatures to look at every day...
gl
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#16

I don't know if anyone answered as to why they were asking where you were, and in case it felt "creepy" I thought I'd just mention that froggers that are local very often help each other out. I believe that was the intent, to see if anyone who has been in dart frogs for a while was near you.

Lisa
In central NY

R. Imitator 'Cainarachi Valley' 2.3.0
R. Imitator 'Cainarachi Valley' Froglets 8 and counting.
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#17

mcconnellreece Wrote:FYI, I'm 13 years old and my parents usually aren't around so I pretty much have to rely on the Internet for any kind of help.

Hey, i was 14 years old when i got my first dart frog (though i had been keeping various other exotic animals with my dad's help for a couple of years before that). I'm 15 now and i have 3 leucomela's which are going to be moved into a 40-45 gal. viv by mid-Jan. As one junior to another, i would recommend taking your time with this. It's good your asking questions and trying to research before you jump into something. Make sure you're dedicated however and its not something you're going to get bored of after the novelty expires. They're not like dogs or some lizards where you can take them out and play with them. Think of them as fish; they look great but can't be touched. They live for 20 years and there's no point in spending lots of money creating the best vivarium if after 1 year you sell them or they die of neglect.
Lastly, don't rush into this and buy the first thing you see. Take your time and get the biggest viv you can find for your money, the best plants, the best lighting etc. This is way, it'll probably make your frogs happier which in turn will probably make your happier.
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#18

mcconnellreece Wrote:- I am starting with a 40 gallon aquarium, what all would I need to complete the habitat?
- Why is the process of raising the fruit flies?
- How many frogs can be kept in a habitat of this size?
- What frogs go well together?
- What kind of price am I looking at per frog, at a reptile expo?
- Do I need barriers to separate the frogs?
Thank You, in advance!

Just to briefly answer these questions:
1)Lots of things, plants, substrate, background (optional but a little goes a long way with this and it looks a lot better) and hiding areas, breeding spots if you plan on breeding etc.
2)Make cultures. Put flies in cultures. Let them breed. Make culture(s) every week or so, so that there is a constant supply of them. Wait until a culture is producing (lots of flies have been born) before feeding the flies off. Save a couple dozen of flies to start your next culture(s) with and so on. Let someone else answer this, i don't think i do it correctly at all!
3)Assuming you're going for a large beginners frog i would say 4 adults.
4)None, so no rainbow of frogs.
5) Idk about the prices in America but from what i've seen you can get one for about $30 maybe?
6)I would stick to one species to one vivarium. I suppose you could try and split it into two, but that completely ruins the way the vivarium looks and might disrupt the ecosystem. You would probably also need opaque dividers.
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#19

^^^ Great posts/ responses Scar ! Thanks for helping here.

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#20

Thanks Phil!! I wasn't sure if they were correct actually.
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