Reef comparable to Darts? Need some advice!

[hillshooter]

Hi im a current sw reefer and have been keeping reef tanks for 10+ years. My current tank is a mixed 120g reef with lps, sps and soft coral. Are dart frogs anything like keeping saltwater? I'm looking at exo-terra mini 30x30x30 i really don't want to go any bigger. I want to keep a few frogs but don't want to mix or end up killing each other. So far i know that you can keep 2 males and 1 female and really thats all im looking to keep 3. Im also looking for frogs that spend more time on the ground (whatever thats called)... I understand humidity and temperature as i have a bit of experience keeping exotic plants. If someone can guide me to the right dart frog species that would be great!

[RanaVenenosa]

Hi and welcome to Dart Den

If you list your location you will prob find other locals who can really help you out. Many benefits to getting jacked into the local scene. I kept salt-reef tanks for 25 years and would say they are similar in maint demand. Although frogs will need some attention most everyday with occasion tolerance for a few days in between. If you have the sophistication to learn and keep a reef tank, then you should faire ok w Dart frogs. Before you do anything I would read a few books on darts - Jason Juchems has a great book - also spend a few weeks reading the old posts. You prob wont keep just "one" viv... : ) you will quickly find this out on your own. A nice general size is the zoomed 18" cube or even better is 18x18x24 long. Floor space is key for any frog as they rummage the leaf litter hunting for food. Darts are not "exclusive" tree dwellers, in fact quite the opposite. What you want is a frog that is "easy" to see, bold, and tolerant of beginner mistakes. We all have our favorites, but the frog I push for beginners are Yellow Truncatus. Its one of my favorite due to nice call, bold, hardy, group friendly , and has striking look in person (doesnt photo as good). Luecomelos is also popular w beginners. Auratus also get recommended, but they are more shy and that is a big minus in my opinion. I see many new people jump in with Phyllobates sp, but these tend to have skin issues. Again, just my opinion meant to help you along. Listen to what others have to say and don't be shy about posting questions.

Thx
Scott

[Philsuma]

Hi there and Welcome to Dart Den.

I would guess that 70-80% of dart frog keepers were/are saltwater or reefers, so you are in good company. If you succeeded at reefing, then like Scott said, you should do fine here.

Even though these frogs may seem small, it's not best practice to try to place them in any small size enclosure - think roughly 10 gallons per frog. The "medium size" Exoterras are @ 33 gallons for instance and a trio of frogs works well for them.

Please take your time to look around and read. The beginner forum and General forum both have some good stickied threads that will help you. Ask questions or even post onto an existing thread, and we will be sure to help and guide you. And above all..have fun.

~Phil

[hillshooter]

Thanks for the info guys. I really like the Yellow Truncatus, do you think i can keep 3 or 2 juvies in a 12"x12"x12" i suppose i can always upgrade to a 18"x18"x18" but space is kind of an issue as the 12x12x12 will fit perfect in the location i have in mind. I would really like to keep 3 frogs or 2 that wouldn't kill each other as an adult. i've been reading lots online, but there are so many species of darts. What if i were to order 2 juvie Yellow Truncatus and they both turn out to be male, would they kill each other?

[Philsuma]

My advice...don't try to fit the frogs into something....instead, wait until you can give them more room.

a 12x12x12 enclosure is too small for 90% of the frogs in our hobby, IMO.

Frogs don't behave so aggressively that they kill each other quickly, bloodily...it's usually stress and wasting away.

[RanaVenenosa]

Hi
A 12 cube is too small for any frog except as a grow out, and I would use a cheap 10gal setup for that, but once you hit 7-8 mos you need to think about moving the frogs into an 18 cube minimum. Truncs are very social and will not fight. 3 frogs in an 18cube would be fine, but the key is really do a good job w viv design. These frogs will use the entire viv and can scale the glass. If your fine keeping just 2 frogs, you can always consider Tincs. The Azureus is common and very beautiful,but best only as a pair.

Hope that helps -

[love_chariot]

Yay Frogs! I reefed and have since switched over to frogs. I would say get an 18x18x18 or 24 exoterra to begin. The front opening makes life tons easier and they will easily support a pair or trio comfortably. Leucs, tincs, auratus, galacs are all great choices for first frogs. Leucs call loudly and are quite comical, tincs come in sweet colors and are pretty big and bold. Auratus has the metallic looking colors, and galacs are like little monkies. Each are good sized hearty frogs that will be out and about. I would find someone near you with frogs and ask to visit their room. Once you pick a frog, then research their preferred viv style, vert/long, heavily planted, things like that. Start building your viv and before you know it, it will have spawned friends.

[J Teezy]

i agree don't try to just get the bare minimum size enclosure. The more room you provide the more your frogs will be out hunting around. I personally like 29 gallon aquariums for 2-3 leucs or azureus. If i was going to go exo terra or zoo med i would go with a 24x18x24 exo terra for 2-3 personally.