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I think this thread will tie into others on DD, but it was specific enough of a question not to derail other threads, some that at this point have gone beyond their usefulness IMO anyways.
1. Is there someone, or multiple people, on DD that have actually been a direct importer of amphibians/ PDF into the USA??
2. Can they please help us all, understand the process better. Cause I'm tired of hearing armchair experts tell me things online that I can not be certain are even close to the truth.
3. What are the pros/ cons, pitfalls and risks please?
My limited understanding is that there are often:
1. minimums placed upon orders
2. 'filler' animals that are not usually wanted but are required to get 'what you want'.
3. US FW import license. ~100$ to apply if I recall from when I did it in 2009
4. Export fees to pay, Vet inspections, taxes, etc.
5. Overseas shipping paid by the buyer.
6. Customs to contend with. Which requires appointments at ports of entry.
7. Many importers use an agent or broker at the port of entry. They charge a fee of course.
8. USA taxes on value of material brought in.
7. NO live arrival guarantee, so when you send over your 10K, and DOA animals arrive you are SOL.
8. QT and losses post delivery. Ive heard 10-20% is 'average', and I will say I have experienced similar #'s.
9. Importers time and risk of course.
So really, how does it work in the real world? Who has done this with say 100, 200 or 700 for that matter animals and can please outline the process for the regular keepers like me who wonder why we pay 250$ for CB frogs...or God help us, 800$ for CB frogs from some breeders on this forum ?? hock:
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Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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I have directly imported.
You hit most of the nails on the head, except the following:
4. Export fees to pay, Vet inspections, taxes, etc.
Usually just a health cert charge if the exporting country requires it. US does not require it for most herp species.
6. Customs to contend with. Which requires appointments at ports of entry.
You deal with USFWS on import inspection. While customs can be done by going to their office and filling out a few forms. Usually, it is done online. Pretty easy and quite.
7. Many importers use an agent or broker at the port of entry. They charge a fee of course.
Most do, fees range from $200+. Most Miami brokers charge about $300-$400.00 depending on the shipment.
8. USA taxes on value of material brought in.
Taxes for most countries are RARELY paid. I've never had to pay taxes on live herps. This is generally for things like textiles, etc.
7. NO live arrival guarantee, so when you send over your 10K, and DOA animals arrive you are SOL.
All my exporters have ALWAYS given live arrival guarantee.
8. QT and losses post delivery. Ive heard 10-20% is 'average', and I will say I have experienced similar #'s.
Depends on the shipment. I've had 0-80%.
9. Importers time and risk of course.
This is usually the biggest pain in the ass. Very rarely do you order things and they go as planned. Lots of planning, fixing, back and forth, and waiting. If you just want a few frogs (or a few dozen) don't import. In fact....unless there is no other way or it's YOUR BUSINESS, don't import. If you are not familiar, you will lose money most of the time on shipments.
I think the biggest concern is making sure all laws and regulations are being followed. The Lacey Act will kick you in your a** and IATA regs will cause you shipment to be taken by USFWS and the airlines to ban future shipments from your exporter.
My fav....my exporter sent some frogs to me with fern fronds in the bottles. USDA had a panic attack....and then we saw a fruit fly in there!
At min. a shipment is going to cost in fees, freight, etc. about $1200-1500.00 without the cost of the frogs. Don't forget, most exports will not deal with you, especially if you just want the rare stuff they can sell to anyone, including their current clients who will accept the common stuff as well.
Sports_Doc Wrote:I think this thread will tie into others on DD, but it was specific enough of a question not to derail other threads, some that at this point have gone beyond their usefulness IMO anyways.
1. Is there someone, or multiple people, on DD that have actually been a direct importer of amphibians/ PDF into the USA??
2. Can they please help us all, understand the process better. Cause I'm tired of hearing armchair experts tell me things online that I can not be certain are even close to the truth.
3. What are the pros/ cons, pitfalls and risks please?
My limited understanding is that there are often:
1. minimums placed upon orders
2. 'filler' animals that are not usually wanted but are required to get 'what you want'.
3. US FW import license. ~100$ to apply if I recall from when I did it in 2009
4. Export fees to pay, Vet inspections, taxes, etc.
5. Overseas shipping paid by the buyer.
6. Customs to contend with. Which requires appointments at ports of entry.
7. Many importers use an agent or broker at the port of entry. They charge a fee of course.
8. USA taxes on value of material brought in.
7. NO live arrival guarantee, so when you send over your 10K, and DOA animals arrive you are SOL.
8. QT and losses post delivery. Ive heard 10-20% is 'average', and I will say I have experienced similar #'s.
9. Importers time and risk of course.
So really, how does it work in the real world? Who has done this with say 100, 200 or 700 for that matter animals and can please outline the process for the regular keepers like me who wonder why we pay 250$ for CB frogs...or God help us, 800$ for CB frogs from some breeders on this forum ?? hock:
Best,
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Sports_Doc Wrote:1. Is there someone, or multiple people, on DD that have actually been a direct importer of amphibians/ PDF into the USA??
I'm fairly sure there are Shawn, but I've found the Chicago unit of the U.S.F+W. to be very straight forward and helpful with any and all questions I have had for them over the past five years. And it's been a lot of contact.
2. Can they please help us all, understand the process better. Cause I'm tired of hearing armchair experts tell me things online that I can not be certain are even close to the truth.
Point out the issues you feel are incorrect or doubtful of and maybe we can help.
3. What are the pros/ cons, pitfalls and risks please?
Is this a serious question? Best case you get exactly what is promised. Worse, you get your money stolen. All kinds of stuff in between can happen. If this is not a rhetorical question, it could take weeks to type out the answers, answers.
My limited understanding is that there are often:
1. minimums placed upon orders
Easily, very very easily overcome. The solution to pollution (cash) is dilution. Spread out the costs between buddies. If you don't have enough friends who would want in on an import done right, you have not been in the hobby long enough to attempt an import which does the hobby any good.
2. 'filler' animals that are not usually wanted but are required to get 'what you want'.
The same "filler" animals which sell out eventually. The same filler frogs being sold every day on all the forums we frequent. Someone will love them.
3. US FW import license. ~100$ to apply if I recall from when I did it in 2009
Divide by 5 people, or 10 , or suck up that yearly $100 fee. It's half a Comcast monthly bill.
4. Export fees to pay, Vet inspections, taxes, etc.
Split with trusted hobbyists involved.
5. Overseas shipping paid by the buyer.
see above point
6. Customs to contend with. Which requires appointments at ports of entry.
Call F+W with the species list 48 hours in advance. Let F+W inspect. Collect frogs.
7. Many importers use an agent or broker at the port of entry. They charge a fee of course.
...or , use the $100 license from line #3.
8. USA taxes on value of material brought in.
We pay taxes in the U.S.? Mind blowing.
7. NO live arrival guarantee, so when you send over your 10K, and DOA animals arrive you are SOL.
Yup
8. QT and losses post delivery. Ive heard 10-20% is 'average', and I will say I have experienced similar #'s.
Yup again.
And probably higher than 10-20% in many cases. Which is why they should not be sold until AFTER quarantine. Which takes well over a month.
9. Importers time and risk of course.
For which he/she is paid. Or as business people it would not make sense to attempt. There is profit to be made. Simple.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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Sports_Doc Wrote:^ wow, isn't that a biased group of answers.
Now, when have you imported Rich?
and will you be doing so again in the near future, as I am interested in investing in your animals after QT.
Having done my own bit of research I decided it was not worth my own effort to import directly.
Also, I realize some Exporters may offer Live Arrival, but from what I have heard from folks who imported PDF, that is often not the case. I think it could be arranged ahead of time, but good luck collecting on it.
True answers they are.
Read again. I said to talk to U.S.F+W. , if, if you are actually looking for answers. As opposed to trying to make it seem as if getting pums out of Panama is a hard task.
You have not answered my one single question to you Shawn. Do you now consider us enemies?
I will be involved in absolute site locale data imports, from a country that cares, when the frog are ready (actually bred in captivity) and done properly. I won't be contacting a few old timers, lie to them about locale data included, and then screw them over by selling them frogs with no data.
They will be small controlled imports and you won't be reading about how Rich Frye screwed over investors. You'll just see pics once they are in the country.
If you know and totally can trust the people involved , many/most of these issues are moot. Trust is what lacking, because the truth is also what's lacking.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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RichFrye Wrote:I will be involved in absolute site locale data imports, from a country that cares, when the frog are ready (actually bred in captivity) and done properly. I won't be contacting a few old timers, lie to them about locale data included, and then screw them over by selling them frogs with no data.
They will be small controlled imports and you won't be reading about how Rich Frye screwed over investors. You'll just see pics once they are in the country.If you know and totally can trust the people involved , many/most of these issues are moot. Trust is what lacking, because the truth is also what's lacking.
Controlled imports, a Breeders union, a Panacur study, so many claims so few coming to fruition. I've been watching your antics for a few years now and all I see is smoke, mirrots and a heck of a lot of hot air. But please continue... I have a slow afternoon at work for once and can fully enjoy the "Frye dog and pony show" up close and personal.
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Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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