Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Wanted - Leptopelis Uluguruensis (big eyed moon frogs)
#1
Does anyone know where I might find some females for the three males I already have??? They are just the cutest frogs...
Reply
#2
Tanzania is not exporting at the moment due to some paper iregularities concerning Lygodactylus Williamsi and there are few if any of these frogs still in the country. Taking in the fact that this species has never been bred in captivity and no one realy knows what the proper triggers for breeding are, I would suggest you enjoy your present specimens. If you do wish to try an aquire some your best best would be Tyrone at Cal Zoological( A west coast importer similar to Strictly) who was involved with bringing in the last group about a year ago and may know where some ended up.
Reply
#3
I think we can help you find some cute Dart frogs...
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
Reply
#4
Yah...but my boys keep hollering that they want some...girls...
Reply
#5
MantisD--what is "Strictly"? Do you have any more specific hints about Tyrone??? At Cal Zoological??? Am going to Google that right now...thanks... I do have a little breeding info on them, and think that perhaps a real water/stream/boggy situation might be helpful...am willing to invest the time...would be a wonderful opportunity for people to see these guys..unfortunately they are rather sedate...but cute--sedate--like watching your favorite pet rock ...with big eyes...
Reply
#6
Judy S Wrote:MantisD--what is "Strictly"? Do you have any more specific hints about Tyrone??? At Cal Zoological??? Am going to Google that right now...thanks... I do have a little breeding info on them, and think that perhaps a real water/stream/boggy situation might be helpful...am willing to invest the time...would be a wonderful opportunity for people to see these guys..unfortunately they are rather sedate...but cute--sedate--like watching your favorite pet rock ...with big eyes...

Strictly Reptiles is a large wholesaler based out of South Florida. The challenge with the species is that no one really knows how they breed in fact scientists aren't even sure if they have ever encountered Ulugurensis tads in the wild. However as a starting point many species of Leptopeltis in the same region tend to bury the eggs in soft mud near water sources and wait for the rain to wash the devoleping eggs to water. No one really knows if Ulugurensis follow the same trend.
Reply
#7
thanks for that ... I have understood that part of the breeding...and that in amplex they bury themselves together in the boggy area and wait for the water to carry the tads..that is why I thought a sort of stream would be an inviting thought...even though I observe they are really tree top dwellers, this part of their life, obviously is terrestrial. I have looked up Tyrone at CalZoo, but it looks as though they don't sell directly to the public...so I have to call in person ...thanks for your help.
Reply
#8
What do you know about this? Curious who you heard this info from and is it USFWS preventing importation or Tanzania preventing export of all species because of the L. williamsi? What is the word out there? I haven't been paying much attention to Tanzania as I should lately.

As for the frogs, when they start being importing again, they can be found, but often they are mis ID'ed or in a group of similar species. I'd suggest getting someone familiar with frogs who goes to Strictly personally to handpick specimens obtain you some when they come in.

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:Tanzania is not exporting at the moment due to some paper iregularities concerning Lygodactylus Williamsi
Reply
#9
BluePumilio Wrote:What do you know about this? Curious who you heard this info from and is it USFWS preventing importation or Tanzania preventing export of all species because of the L. williamsi? What is the word out there? I haven't been paying much attention to Tanzania as I should lately.

As for the frogs, when they start being importing again, they can be found, but often they are mis ID'ed or in a group of similar species. I'd suggest getting someone familiar with frogs who goes to Strictly personally to handpick specimens obtain you some when they come in.

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:Tanzania is not exporting at the moment due to some paper iregularities concerning Lygodactylus Williamsi

The story I heard from folks in the know was that the way they were able to get the Williamsi out of the country was by working with a couple of officials in the Tanzania Ministry covering Parks and Wildlife to alter the field guides the customs officials in country used to show Williamsi as Luteopictaratus. The fraud was caught relatively quickly but not before several thousand animals were exported and the tiny preserve they are exclusive to almost completely denuded of specimens. The government position now is that until they find out who, how and why the official field manual were altered they will restrict or deny all exportation permits.
Reply
#10
I have been very worried about this species.

I was very aware people in the US & Tanzania were shipping them Yellowheads, something I have repeatedly brought up publicly and privately. This species does have a very small range and until a few years ago was known from less then a dozen wild specimens! They were being exported illegally since at least 2008 in large numbers, they were being sold in the US for as little as $20.00 each last year! Sadly, the preserve is also having increased logging being undertaken, although the palms the species lives on in the river gorge are not being targeted, they are being affected.

I had not heard about the alteration before now. That is interesting. I'll be VERY happy to see the illegal take of specimens stopped. Hopefully the population can recover. They breed easily in captivity, so I think the trade has enough to establish breeding colonies. It might also be a good idea for the people in the reserve to farm this species to supply future LEGAL imports.

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:
BluePumilio Wrote:What do you know about this? Curious who you heard this info from and is it USFWS preventing importation or Tanzania preventing export of all species because of the L. williamsi? What is the word out there? I haven't been paying much attention to Tanzania as I should lately.

As for the frogs, when they start being importing again, they can be found, but often they are mis ID'ed or in a group of similar species. I'd suggest getting someone familiar with frogs who goes to Strictly personally to handpick specimens obtain you some when they come in.

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:Tanzania is not exporting at the moment due to some paper iregularities concerning Lygodactylus Williamsi

The story I heard from folks in the know was that the way they were able to get the Williamsi out of the country was by working with a couple of officials in the Tanzania Ministry covering Parks and Wildlife to alter the field guides the customs officials in country used to show Williamsi as Luteopictaratus. The fraud was caught relatively quickly but not before several thousand animals were exported and the tiny preserve they are exclusive to almost completely denuded of specimens. The government position now is that until they find out who, how and why the official field manual were altered they will restrict or deny all exportation permits.
Reply
#11
The only challenge with the farmed model is that it becomes a convenient way to launder "WC" specimens as I have been told occurs at Joe Berducci's "farm" in Arusha. Luckily this species is very low on the local food chain(just above insects) and thus can replenish the population very quickly if left alone.
Reply
#12
Joe B. laundering wild specimens? Really? While I have not directly dealt with Joe, I have kept a VERY close eye on his farm and his exports. I have NEVER seen this occur. Hell, usually he sends F1 specimens as under his WC quota because he produces too many F1 and exceeds his F1 quota. I have known many of his clients overseas (I've purchased these specimens), I have seen his shipments unpacked, I have purchased these animals. Everything I saw that he stated was farmed was obviously farmed, no doubts about it. Joe is not like most people and always after the $, I HIGHLY suspect you are mistaken on this. I have never seen a herp farm be more ethical and "put together" then his. If you can back this up by even one suspected specimen, PM me. I just would have a hard time believing it. Really, I'm extremely surprised at this statement. I'm the first to call out any suspected laundering going on, but I have never even closely though Joe would or has been doing this. This really just baffles me. I think if anything this is a story being told from an importer not able to get his specimens or an exporter upset they don't get issued F1 quotas (Joe is the ONLY source in Tanzania for F1 specimens).

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:The only challenge with the farmed model is that it becomes a convenient way to launder "WC" specimens as I have been told occurs at Joe Berducci's "farm" in Arusha. Luckily this species is very low on the local food chain(just above insects) and thus can replenish the population very quickly if left alone.
Reply
#13
BluePumilio Wrote:Joe B. laundering wild specimens? Really? While I have not directly dealt with Joe, I have kept a VERY close eye on his farm and his exports. I have NEVER seen this occur. Hell, usually he sends F1 specimens as under his WC quota because he produces too many F1 and exceeds his F1 quota. I have known many of his clients overseas (I've purchased these specimens), I have seen his shipments unpacked, I have purchased these animals. Everything I saw that he stated was farmed was obviously farmed, no doubts about it. Joe is not like most people and always after the $, I HIGHLY suspect you are mistaken on this. I have never seen a herp farm be more ethical and "put together" then his. If you can back this up by even one suspected specimen, PM me. I just would have a hard time believing it. Really, I'm extremely surprised at this statement. I'm the first to call out any suspected laundering going on, but I have never even closely though Joe would or has been doing this. This really just baffles me. I think if anything this is a story being told from an importer not able to get his specimens or an exporter upset they don't get issued F1 quotas (Joe is the ONLY source in Tanzania for F1 specimens).

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:The only challenge with the farmed model is that it becomes a convenient way to launder "WC" specimens as I have been told occurs at Joe Berducci's "farm" in Arusha. Luckily this species is very low on the local food chain(just above insects) and thus can replenish the population very quickly if left alone.

As stated previously I don't have direct proof or knowledge of this. Most allegations I've seen revolved around some Bradypodion and Rhampholeon species that came in as supposed farm breds but no adult breeders of the species represented were seen at the farm itself. It's been well over a decade since I've dealt with chameleons and am by no means familiar with all the recent species revisions. This is why I made the point of stressing the I've been told part.
Reply
#14
It is likely to be incorrect information and as far as I know, Joe has all the Tanzanian species of chams at farm (he also has Kenyan species/subspecies), although some have breeding specimens been in very small quantities (I remember when he had just a few species of R. montanus and R. spinsoum) due to the rarity. If anything it is likely that his adult breeders died before the eggs could hatch out. Even if the eggs where collected from gravid wild specimens, they would still qualify as farmed. Heck, it is very difficult to find juv. specimens of chameleons in the wild. It would be strange that he would have people search for these impossible specimens so he could then export them as farmed, especially when adults would be easier to obtain for breeding. Not to mention all the specimens come in with perfect skin....WC's never show that, none I have seen. I also have never seen a juv. cham in the wild, plenty of adults.

He worked so hard to get an F1 quota and as far as I know, Tanzania is the only country that officially publishes an F1 quota with CITES for chameleons and unlike most countries claiming farmed animals, they really are.

Joe has a team of woman who's only job it is to collect moths and other bugs to feed his chams. His operation is very well ran and is amazing in all aspects, especially being Tanzania. He is very concerned about the conservation of chameleons and all animals. In fact, check basically any text on Tanzanian reptiles or amphibians in the past 15-20 years and he is likely to be listed in the credits, telling him thank you for....an every growing list. He is the first person biologist contact when they find a new species and he has helped discover quite a few himself.

Please, be cautious when potentially saying Joe is engaged in illegal activities, the man has done more for the hobby, herpetology, and sustainable wildlife farming then anyone else I know. He is a legend that lives up to his reputation, unlike many of those that came out of that era.

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:
BluePumilio Wrote:Joe B. laundering wild specimens? Really? While I have not directly dealt with Joe, I have kept a VERY close eye on his farm and his exports. I have NEVER seen this occur. Hell, usually he sends F1 specimens as under his WC quota because he produces too many F1 and exceeds his F1 quota. I have known many of his clients overseas (I've purchased these specimens), I have seen his shipments unpacked, I have purchased these animals. Everything I saw that he stated was farmed was obviously farmed, no doubts about it. Joe is not like most people and always after the $, I HIGHLY suspect you are mistaken on this. I have never seen a herp farm be more ethical and "put together" then his. If you can back this up by even one suspected specimen, PM me. I just would have a hard time believing it. Really, I'm extremely surprised at this statement. I'm the first to call out any suspected laundering going on, but I have never even closely though Joe would or has been doing this. This really just baffles me. I think if anything this is a story being told from an importer not able to get his specimens or an exporter upset they don't get issued F1 quotas (Joe is the ONLY source in Tanzania for F1 specimens).

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:The only challenge with the farmed model is that it becomes a convenient way to launder "WC" specimens as I have been told occurs at Joe Berducci's "farm" in Arusha. Luckily this species is very low on the local food chain(just above insects) and thus can replenish the population very quickly if left alone.

As stated previously I don't have direct proof or knowledge of this. Most allegations I've seen revolved around some Bradypodion and Rhampholeon species that came in as supposed farm breds but no adult breeders of the species represented were seen at the farm itself. It's been well over a decade since I've dealt with chameleons and am by no means familiar with all the recent species revisions. This is why I made the point of stressing the I've been told part.
Reply
#15
Simply don't know enough either way to make an educated statement on the scenario with Joe. It sounds like you are much more familiar with his operation that I am and so I will defer to your opinion on this one. However I stand by my original statement that allowing farming of Williamsi will open the door to illegal WCs coming out of the country as well.
Reply
#16
I largely agree with you, though a legitimate export of the species is better then all of them being smuggled. I'm guessing Joe will revert to breeding this species and exporting them. The first specimens exported/imported came from him.

Perhaps a formal quota of this species should be established (and enforced). I personally think it needs to be added to CITES II quickly in order to better manage/track the flow of specimens. This could work in conjunction with a breeding program. I think an export price of $25.00 (meaning about $100-150.00 retail) would allow it to be profitable and export permit fees could be used to monitor the farming of the species.

USFWS is aware of the illegal williamsi now as well (as of last Aug), so I don't think people will want to have their animals confiscated. They need to inspect any shipments with any related specimens. I think this would help curb the illegal trade. of course, then the problem is Asia.

Either way, this species needs protection of it's habitat and needs some sort of legal farming operation.

I'm happy to say my Williamsi group was legally acquired...unlike the vast majority of specimens in the US.

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:Simply don't know enough either way to make an educated statement on the scenario with Joe. It sounds like you are much more familiar with his operation that I am and so I will defer to your opinion on this one. However I stand by my original statement that allowing farming of Williamsi will open the door to illegal WCs coming out of the country as well.
Reply
#17
Here is the problem as I see it with the farmed model as it works for chameleons being applied to Williamsi. Chameleons tend to lay their eggs in places where one can remove and incubate them easily thus monitoring the development and growth of all offspring. Williamsi are egg-gluers and the offspring are ridiculously tiny and hard to contain using most materials commonly available in Tanzania. I simply don't see this beeing as simple for Joe to manage a breeding group of Williamsi as it is with any type of chameleons. I personally would like to see the species made of limits to export period. The range is simply too small, the possibility of strip mining the population too large, and more than enough are already in private hands both here and in Europe to allow for a stable population to be established, albeit at much higher prices than what we have foolishly allowed ourselves to become accustomed the species to go for. I think at $100-150 range you previously quoted there should be plenty of CB specimens available for those willing to spend the money( a similar scenario has already happened with Phelsuma Klemmeri another extremely limited range species which has not been imported from the wild in well over a decade but which can be seen offered for as liitle as $75 retail on a fairly regular basis)

On side note if you should have an extra male Williamsi let me know what you want for him, since the only male I currently have isn't aggressive/confident enough to impress the females I currently own.
Reply
#18
Joe has been breeding them since at least 2005. I'm not sure if he can produce quanity, but he can and has produced them. Have you seen his set-up? He can manage williamsi. I'm telling you, it's awesome.

Mantisdragon91 Wrote:Here is the problem as I see it with the farmed model as it works for chameleons being applied to Williamsi. Chameleons tend to lay their eggs in places where one can remove and incubate them easily thus monitoring the development and growth of all offspring. Williamsi are egg-gluers and the offspring are ridiculously tiny and hard to contain using most materials commonly available in Tanzania. I simply don't see this beeing as simple for Joe to manage a breeding group of Williamsi as it is with any type of chameleons.

On side note if you should have an extra male Williamsi let me know what you want for him, since the only male I currently have isn't aggressive/confident enough to impress the females I currently own.
Reply
#19
Okay...back to Leptopelis Uluguruensis...can anybody out there let me know when these beautiful frogs start being imported again?? As you may have read, I have three males and am willing to invest time, etc. to try to breed these frogs. If the importer, Joe, has any suggestions as to approach or a way to research the conditions they are usually found in--I'd love to try to reproduce them... If they bury themselves in a boggy area in amplex, they would be difficult to visualize..obviously...but by following the calling and "tracking" them, it might be possible to find them.... I did google the L.Williamsi, and can definitly see the attraction...beautiful coloration. Thanks for any suggestions...Judy
Reply
#20
I think I have a book that details their habitat and breeding. I'll find and scan it for you.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)