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Why don't more people 'register' their frogs ?

I've heard this question posed at Ron's recent TWI presentation at Frog Day 2012.

In my opinion, it's fairly simple why most people refuse to register frogs:

1. Most people view this as a 'luxury" hobby and refuse to do anything that they 'don't feel like doing'.

2. Most hobbyists would purchase frogs 'off the grid" or....shall we say...of questionable origin.

3. There is no real, tangible, payoff to registration....i.e it doesn't make the frog worth more $$.

some thoughts.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".

A little cynical Phil?!

I think there are a few more innocent reasons people haven't been more active to register. We've registered some of our animals so I feel somewhat qualified to comment:

1. It's a bit of a chore to fill out the paperwork. Not a huge ordeal, unless you have a really large collection, but it takes a little time and people are busy. I bet there are plenty of people that would "like" to register, but just haven't gotten around to it.

2. For every hobbiest that can rattle off the origin of every frog they ever owned - there are 100 that forgot the information 10 seconds after the purchase. I think people are reluctant to register frogs when they are unsure of the lineage.

3. The fact is, we are tracking living animals. Animals live and animals die, they are sold and traded... for whatever reason, they come and go. It's not easy to take on the burden of recording every death, every mate swap, every trade away, or sale.

4. Unless folks are part of an active management plan - what is their incentive to register? Not enough people participate, so there's no social pressure to conform. And those that have registered rarely bother to offer that information when they sell offspring - because nobody really seems to care.


I can't disagree with any of that Jeremy...and it looks like we both presented some 'extremes' and that people just may be 'in the middle there somewhere'.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".

For me, I registered my whole collection a couple years ago and it was quite a hassle. Not only that but a bit confusing. Aside from that I either just don't have the time to keep up with everything or simply forget.

If TWI had a way of submitting everything on a form right on their site it would make things much easier.

Lately I have been thinking for the most part, many frogs it seems as though it isn't worth it to track them. I think both the TMP's and TMG's are extremely necessary, but not tracking EVERYTHING. Certain frogs, such as the sylvatica or pumilio that just came in, sure, those should ABSOLUTELY be tracked.

Adam Hess

I didn't do it because they don't have a "secretary " to just ask you questions and enter everything for you. Also I entered in Frogtracks and gave out #'s to the first few people and then never got asked for them and was told "don't worry about it" when I told people I would get their #'s for them. Plus I don't think they accept frogs who weren't gotten from the breeder(that is if they came from a vendor who buys from multiple breeders).

"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile

Blaming the hobby for the Wascher debacle is ignorant.

The hobby is under no obligation to 'register' it's frogs, and quite frankly I doubt it would ever work. 2000 leuc froglets....are these all going to be tracked? How do we tell them apart?

Saying the Wascher debacle is our fault, is like blaming the hot chick for wearing skimpy clothes....not my best analogy, but it's close to the mark.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".

The Wasvher things isn't your "fault". It's your fault for not registering your frogs when anyone can create hybrids, if that's what you don't want in "your hobby". You can't expect everyone to act just how you want them to. It's their hobby too and the people who buy frogs/hybrids/what they want, well it's their hobby too.

To me that thread is the biggest whiney bitch thread I've ever seen. Hybrids? You all own them. Leucs, bicolors, "cobalts", tincs, auratus. Those were the lump terms for anything that came in. These animals are NEVER going back to the wild so why they would have to be bred "randomly" or even worried about is beyond me. Breed the "healthiest specimen to the healthiest specimen" because their only value now is as pets.

Do I value hybrids, no. I like a representation from a certain area in the wild, personally. But if I saw a purple leuc/azureus(which one of the more popular breeders got eews and awws over when they put up a pic of the "monster" they created0 I thought I wouldn't ming having that as a display animal. But they never got a thread like the waschers because they were "frog gods" and they could get away with that.

So, if it's "your hobby" and you want it a certain way, you should take action to keep it that way instead of bitching and complaining. Then this way everyone can have "their hobby" and live in harmony. Any time you want people to act a certain way because "that's how it should be done" your doing nothing but persecuting people because they don't act like you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what they are doing. If they were going back to the habitats they came from and releasing hybrids into the populations, I'd have problems with that. Let's not forget that the natural populations are the ones that matter and what we have is just a REPRESENTATION.

"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile

Roadrunner Wrote:.There is absolutely nothing wrong with what they are doing.

Except telling people dart frogs love to be handled.
Telling people that their frogs need BFF companions.
Telling people all the "so called experts" in the hobby have been doing it wrong all these years
Changing all the frogs names to their own made up names.
Editing that website on a weekly basis to suit their agenda.
Telling people in the beginning that leaf litter was a waste of money
Telling people that Repashy products are inferior to theirs
That entire website is full of lies and false information, yet they direct you to their religion page.
Telling people it`s fine to keep your Azuerus and Luecomelas together because they enjoy each others company.
Wait did I say Azuerus and Luecomela? Sorry I meant Malibu Beach and Sunbee.
Slapping a trademark on every word they make up.

Other then that and a 100 other things their not doing anything wrong

Agree 100% John. I must have missed the sentence where Aaron said that. Raising tons of 'hobby frogs' is not wrong. Going about it the way that they are is absolutely wrong.

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".

Take it out of context? I was only talking about breeding frogs and creating hybrids, not all that other stuff. Notice NONE of that was mentioned in my post and I was simply replying to Phil's comment about not registering frogs being the hobby's fault. Nice try though.

"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile

You missed it because you read it right and in context, so it didn't stick out like John wanted it to.

Just more News sensationalism tricks.

"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile

Whatever you say Aaron.
Remember we had this conversation before.
You know where to find me

Why would I want to do that?

"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile

And no, we didn't have THIS conversation before. This conversation you took my words out of context and tried to have me saying something i didn't.
And I still haven't heard a real reason that they can't breed their frogs the way they wish. If you can inbreed them then why can't they outbreed them? The only reason we still "have to" import from the wild is the idea that we have to have wild type frogs or the morph will die out or something(not be exactly what you want it to be even if you can't see anything different). There are lots of ways to breed animals. Inbreeding and getting rid of the deleterious alleles seems to work fine with darts and will for over 100 years if you don't have a generation every year from people getting out of the hobby. Breeding wc to cb that are generations inbred also works, contrary to the fear mongering put out by some. Outbreeding seems fine also or we wouldn't have any old line frogs. Back then an auratus was an auratus and a cobalt was a cobalt and a bicolor was a bicolor, etc. etc. It's not the end of the world if a mixed animal gets in. the way they'll definitely get in is if they are taboo and have to be "underground".
If it's that easy to ruin your hobby you should've done something about it. I don't wish anything "bad" on anyone but the lack of tracking frogs and then people bitching on the internet about it seems pretty useless to me. Only buy from known breeders if your worried about it. Start tracking your frogs. Or don't worry about it because they are only pets and not going back into the wild. From an outsiders perspective it seems silly that there is an easy way around it yet all people want to do is sit online and bitch. Don't believe everything you read, the hobby isn't going to fall apart if you don't breed "randomly". These frogs have made it thru a lot worse than choosing partners for breeding. Besides it's not like there are enough people to manage what's in the hobby now.

"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile

I apologize. It just gets annoying when someone tries to derail a thread by focusing on an insignificant part of my post and taking it out of context. This thread is about registering and ways to breed frogs, not abuot the waschers. Again, sorry.

"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile

No need to apologize Aaron.
Totally my fault.
I misread your response and just took off with it.

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