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Nemerteans and Pumilio offspring
#1
I've been mulling over what would happen,if one was trying to rear little pums and the parents viv had nemerteans in it.I know..... i haven't got pums yet,but i try to be armed with as much knowledge as possible before entertaining keeping any dart.So is it possible to rear a pum insitu on say dwarf white woodlice,sorry iso,because the nems would clobber the springtail population.
Most reports i come across say that they rear the little pumilio in the parents viv,for a few months,so if the parental viv has nems in ,have you clever guys got a workaround? I've been told it can work for large oophaga.I also know i can culture silly numbers of iso,just thinking ahead of myself really.......Hmmmm as always
Nemerteans are a pain in the butt that even the most experienced careful folk can seem to get in some tanks,once one has oophaga actually breeding I'd summise the last thing one would want to do is tear down that viv.
thanks as always
Stu
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#2
I did and am continuing to raise all my Escudos on the dwarf grays because their tank has nemerteans, it can really only be successful if there's an extremely booming population of them in there so that there are enough babies for the babies, I also keep throwing lots more of them in there too, until they're big enough to take melanos, I really think the whites probably reproduce too slowly and aren't active enough or out enough for it to be a success though - the dwarf grays and more recent dwarf purples are probably the way to go.
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#3
ChrisK Wrote:I did and am continuing to raise all my Escudos on the dwarf grays because their tank has nemerteans, it can really only be successful if there's an extremely booming population of them in there so that there are enough babies for the babies, I also keep throwing lots more of them in there too, until they're big enough to take melanos, I really think the whites probably reproduce too slowly and aren't active enough or out enough for it to be a success though - the dwarf grays and more recent dwarf purples are probably the way to go.
Hi Chris thanks for the reply.I remember you telling me of this,but i thought it was large oophaga,i also keep a small fast moving iso,I'm not sure whether its the same species as yours or whetherits might be the grey or purple you refer too,it does have large antennea,and as well as moving fast also seems to reproduce quickly,now I've got to the bottom of its culturing requirement.Basically i think i was keeping it a tiny bit too dry.I've got huge numbers of dwarf white and really targeting the fast guys now to get the same numbers going,
From you post it seems very apparent that little pum froglets really respond to a quicker moving feeder,i actually thought that the white might be easier to catch for them, given the fact that, i really can put massive numbers in viv.
Really grateful for these details Chris,much thanks
Stu
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#4
I think I know the fast ones you're talking about - I messed with those once and wasn't really impressed with how they would probably work as feeders because they are so FAST. The dwarf gray and purples aren't really "fast" moving, they're just out and about more than the whites, the whites seem to stay hidden under substrate or wood or whatever once they're in the tank, you don't really see them as much, the grays and purples are totally out and about all the time, you literally don't need to look for them in the frogs' tank, you just see them, so they're easier for the frogs to get (as well as reproducing a lot faster than the whites.)
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#5
I have one pum viv with nemertean and I have been using giant orange isos to combat the problem. Apparently the adult giant orange will eat the nemertean. I also put a lot of springs in the viv and kill any nemertean I see everyday to try to control the population. There are neonate pums and frogelts hopping around and don't seem to be bothered by the nemertean...
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#6
Nemerteans are not that big and it just doesn't seem that they would have the ability or mouthparts to harm a froglet.
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#7
ChrisK Wrote:I think I know the fast ones you're talking about - I messed with those once and wasn't really impressed with how they would probably work as feeders because they are so FAST. The dwarf gray and purples aren't really "fast" moving, they're just out and about more than the whites, the whites seem to stay hidden under substrate or wood or whatever once they're in the tank, you don't really see them as much, the grays and purples are totally out and about all the time, you literally don't need to look for them in the frogs' tank, you just see them, so they're easier for the frogs to get (as well as reproducing a lot faster than the whites.)
Sometimes Chris its a real PAIN in the butt being over here and you guys over there,i can't always access what you guys have and i guess visa versa,that said my dwarf whites are visable especially the babies reason being they seem to be munching these cork tile i use,so they are on the vertical surfaces,ha whether that makes them obtainable to a pum froglets,hell i can't answer,but its a fact nonetheless. Another novice observation is that if i wet the subs,i/WE hand mist, dwarf white seem to come to the surface
bloody frustrating this as i opened with,sometimes i just can't follow up on the great advice i recieve
thankyou again
Stu
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#8
Philsuma Wrote:Nemerteans are not that big and it just doesn't seem that they would have the ability or mouthparts to harm a froglet.


I think the concern was more the lack of microfauna
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#9
Stu&Shaz Wrote:
ChrisK Wrote:I think I know the fast ones you're talking about - I messed with those once and wasn't really impressed with how they would probably work as feeders because they are so FAST. The dwarf gray and purples aren't really "fast" moving, they're just out and about more than the whites, the whites seem to stay hidden under substrate or wood or whatever once they're in the tank, you don't really see them as much, the grays and purples are totally out and about all the time, you literally don't need to look for them in the frogs' tank, you just see them, so they're easier for the frogs to get (as well as reproducing a lot faster than the whites.)
Sometimes Chris its a real PAIN in the butt being over here and you guys over there,i can't always access what you guys have and i guess visa versa,that said my dwarf whites are visable especially the babies reason being they seem to be munching these cork tile i use,so they are on the vertical surfaces,ha whether that makes them obtainable to a pum froglets,hell i can't answer,but its a fact nonetheless. Another novice observation is that if i wet the subs,i/WE hand mist, dwarf white seem to come to the surface
bloody frustrating this as i opened with,sometimes i just can't follow up on the great advice i recieve
thankyou again
Stu

If you're producing tons of the whites and enough springtails, an option might be daily to dump a bunch of white babies and springtails near where any froglets might be, kind of "hand feeding" them, the adult pums might swoop in though.
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#10
cbreon Wrote:I have one pum viv with nemertean and I have been using giant orange isos to combat the problem. Apparently the adult giant orange will eat the nemertean. I also put a lot of springs in the viv and kill any nemertean I see everyday to try to control the population. There are neonate pums and frogelts hopping around and don't seem to be bothered by the nemertean...

giant orange i do have Craig,thanks for the reponse!! All our vivs are stocked with them and again we have a good supply,We've been also trying out Onacillus acellus with regard to clobbering nemerteans,no conclusive results to report yet but nemerteans are not increasing. Craig,it might be all about getting the density of adult iso right per unit of viv.
I have never thought of nemerteans to be a problem to the froglets themselves,just their food source,so you experianced guys and your ways of getting around this lack of a real good springtail population with oophaga(pum) are what this quest is about.Its so cool to have folks doing something daily throwing these ideas back,to a guy getting there,a good stockman still rears stock in adverse conditions what ever they might be.
Craig cheers,again much gratitude
Stu
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#11
brotherly monkey Wrote:
Philsuma Wrote:Nemerteans are not that big and it just doesn't seem that they would have the ability or mouthparts to harm a froglet.


I think the concern was more the lack of microfauna
Absolutely thanks B M
hey Phil Big Grin imput welcomed
Stu
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#12
...also....treat them like Slugs and Snails.....'squash em' when ya see em'"

You'll surprised how big of a 'dent' in the population by just trying to hand-eradicate them instead of fretting over C02 or tearing the tank down.

While you may not win the war with a stubborn population at times....there is the opposite chance that you will, if you are diligent enough...by hand. I'd give it at least a 50/50 chance based on my tanks with 'hitchhikers".
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#13
ChrisK Wrote:
Stu&Shaz Wrote:
ChrisK Wrote:I think I know the fast ones you're talking about - I messed with those once and wasn't really impressed with how they would probably work as feeders because they are so FAST. The dwarf gray and purples aren't really "fast" moving, they're just out and about more than the whites, the whites seem to stay hidden under substrate or wood or whatever once they're in the tank, you don't really see them as much, the grays and purples are totally out and about all the time, you literally don't need to look for them in the frogs' tank, you just see them, so they're easier for the frogs to get (as well as reproducing a lot faster than the whites.)
Sometimes Chris its a real PAIN in the butt being over here and you guys over there,i can't always access what you guys have and i guess visa versa,that said my dwarf whites are visable especially the babies reason being they seem to be munching these cork tile i use,so they are on the vertical surfaces,ha whether that makes them obtainable to a pum froglets,hell i can't answer,but its a fact nonetheless. Another novice observation is that if i wet the subs,i/WE hand mist, dwarf white seem to come to the surface
bloody frustrating this as i opened with,sometimes i just can't follow up on the great advice i recieve
thankyou again
Stu

If you're producing tons of the whites and enough springtails, an option might be daily to dump a bunch of white babies and springtails near where any froglets might be, kind of "hand feeding" them, the adult pums might swoop in though.

That's what I am doing Chris, but that is what I do with every tank that has froglets. I would like to do this more with all my tanks but no matter how many springtails I am producing the froglets always seems to get all that I have, I spoil them I guess...
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#14
Stu&Shaz Wrote:
cbreon Wrote:I have one pum viv with nemertean and I have been using giant orange isos to combat the problem. Apparently the adult giant orange will eat the nemertean. I also put a lot of springs in the viv and kill any nemertean I see everyday to try to control the population. There are neonate pums and frogelts hopping around and don't seem to be bothered by the nemertean...

giant orange i do have Craig,thanks for the reponse!! All our vivs are stocked with them and again we have a good supply,We've been also trying out Onacillus acellus with regard to clobbering nemerteans,no conclusive results to report yet but nemerteans are not increasing. Craig,it might be all about getting the density of adult iso right per unit of viv.
I have never thought of nemerteans to be a problem to the froglets themselves,just their food source,so you experianced guys and your ways of getting around this lack of a real good springtail population with oophaga(pum) are what this quest is about.Its so cool to have folks doing something daily throwing these ideas back,to a guy getting there,a good stockman still rears stock in adverse conditions what ever they might be.
Craig cheers,again much gratitude
Stu

Hey Stu, Always glad to share the info, let us know how your Onacillus acellus observations go. cheers
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#15
Chris you've been doing this for yonks,give me a ball park for what you would expect the success rate of the above to be?
Stu
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#16
Which part?
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#17
ChrisK Wrote:Which part?
Said "hand feeding method" Chris.having no experiance of oophaga froglets i was wondering how much of a disturbance...how much stress if would cause little froglets with me trying this method. I know Craig has partially answered this already,but its really useful to have all these experiances,from different folks,when a problem arises.
thanks for the thoughts
Stu
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#18
Stu&Shaz Wrote:
ChrisK Wrote:Which part?
Said "hand feeding method" Chris.having no experiance of oophaga froglets i was wondering how much of a disturbance...how much stress if would cause little froglets with me trying this method. I know Craig has partially answered this already,but its really useful to have all these experiances,from different folks,when a problem arises.
thanks for the thoughts
Stu

When I hand feed my pumilio froglets, I tap the charcoal from my springtails into a deli cup (I currently have about 15 shoebox cultures). Then I use a slurpee straw, a straw with a little spoon lip on the end, to strategicaly place little piles of springs close to the froglet. I only do this when they are little, my goal is to get them bigger as quickly as possible so that they can take dusted ff's and get the much need vitamins.
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#19
cbreon Wrote:
Stu&Shaz Wrote:
ChrisK Wrote:Which part?
Said "hand feeding method" Chris.having no experiance of oophaga froglets i was wondering how much of a disturbance...how much stress if would cause little froglets with me trying this method. I know Craig has partially answered this already,but its really useful to have all these experiances,from different folks,when a problem arises.
thanks for the thoughts
Stu

When I hand feed my pumilio froglets, I tap the charcoal from my springtails into a deli cup (I currently have about 15 shoebox cultures). Then I use a slurpee straw, a straw with a little spoon lip on the end, to strategicaly place little piles of springs close to the froglet. I only do this when they are little, my goal is to get them bigger as quickly as possible so that they can take dusted ff's and get the much need vitamins.
Thanks Craig,I'm with you 100%,well apart from the slurpee straw thanks for the description!! Might one find such a thing at a macdonalds,not somewhere i frequent,but its the most "american" place i can think of that might do such a thing here

Ha i hear you on these cultures I seem to spend too much time setting up ever bigger cultures,i'm constantly asking for a bigger pot to boil charcoal in,i don't think shaz is that impressed,well until she's feeding all these little froglets,i get forgiven around that time

much help thank you
Stu
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#20
[Image: spoon%20straw%2011.jpg]

[Image: Slurpee_straw_THIS.800w_600h.jpg]
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