Granuliferus, Black Jean, Blue Jean imports?

[Rusty_Shackleford]

So a German smuggler approaches customs trying to smuggle in ten sylvatica. The customs official stops the smuggler and starts yelling "Nein!! Nein!!"....so the smuggler shoves one down his pants.

[Philsuma]

Not too shabby Jon !

[Rusty_Shackleford]

I liked yours too Phil. Made me laugh

I'll be doing two shows this weekend at the Improv lol

[Ghostvivs]

It's simple, this "flipper" was slowly fading away.

All his shit was catching up to him, his "common" darts were not bringing in the customers, why buy from him when there is honest people selling the same thing...

He knew this, so he started looking (well over a year ago) for the rare stuff...

So now this is where we are, and sadly ALWAYS will be, no matter what he did, people will stand in line to buy his rare frogs...

He KNOWS this, so don't expect it to stop.

[markpulawski]

My guess would be this, the last big batch of frogs Josh Lucas wanted to dump went to Taron since no one would buy from Josh any longer. Josh is on a crusade to put together all the rarist obligates he can find and has several times imported frogs from Europe, since Josh and Taron are only a few hours apart (if that) Josh imports a bunch of rare stuff, cherry picks want he wants to keep and then offloads the rest to Taron...pretty simple. The Sylvaticus went in a couple of days, very likely so will these.
The real problem is WC frogs being exported legally out of the EU, as long as that happens this cycle will continue.

[RichFrye]

Add pulled?
My bet was that the same MOD whom claims on this board he was NOT standing up forTaron here :roll: ( just for you buddy) is also the same guy who approved the add.

Gots to gots to have 'em.

[RichFrye]

I suppose a guy buying heroin from a dealer who always gives him good shit and has not yet F'ed him would also give a rave business review...

[RichFrye]

My guess would be this, the last big batch of frogs Josh Lucas wanted to dump went to Taron since no one would buy from Josh any longer. Josh is on a crusade to put together all the rarest obligates he can find and has several times imported frogs from Europe, since Josh and Taron are only a few hours apart (if that) Josh imports a bunch of rare stuff, cherry picks want he wants to keep and then offloads the rest to Taron...pretty simple. The Sylvaticus went in a couple of days, very likely so will these.
The real problem is WC frogs being exported legally out of the EU, as long as that happens this cycle will continue.

If Josh Lucas (aka Toxic Addictions) and/or Zach Allen Smith ( a shell for Lucas) are still doing ANY business in this hobby it would be news to me. News I'd like more info about. Please email me if this is true.

[Philsuma]

The question I would be asking is "Who is the Mod that approved the advertisement and why"...

The very second an ad hits the forum(s), it starts realizing it's potential - to draw interest and promote, in this case, direct sales of frogs.

Dart Den does not need advertisement approval, so you could make a case for an ad containing 'sketchy' animals hitting the airwaves and not getting deleted quickly here.

but why...why oh why....didn't he select THIS forum then ? They DO get more hits/clicks/looks so you could use that theory, but I surmise some other reason. That posting over there was a little bit safer than posting here.

[JJuchems]

but why...why oh why....didn't he select THIS forum then ? They DO get more hits/clicks/looks so you could use that theory, but I surmise some other reason.

I think you answered your own question. traffic is higher, I know we have talked about that in the past and relation to sales.

[Philsuma]

I think you are incorrect here Jason. It's primarily the second reason....the safety, IMO.

Sales of what ? Your book ? I doubt the small sampling of data that you have is indicative of anything solid, one way or the other.

[JJuchems]

Or frogs.

[Philsuma]

still incorrect re the original issue :wink:

[markpulawski]

My guess would be this, the last big batch of frogs Josh Lucas wanted to dump went to Taron since no one would buy from Josh any longer. Josh is on a crusade to put together all the rarest obligates he can find and has several times imported frogs from Europe, since Josh and Taron are only a few hours apart (if that) Josh imports a bunch of rare stuff, cherry picks want he wants to keep and then offloads the rest to Taron...pretty simple. The Sylvaticus went in a couple of days, very likely so will these.
The real problem is WC frogs being exported legally out of the EU, as long as that happens this cycle will continue.

If Josh Lucas (aka Toxic Addictions) and/or Zach Allen Smith ( a shell for Lucas) are still doing ANY business in this hobby it would be news to me. News I'd like more info about. Please email me if this is true.

Rich I could not prove it but after my fiasco with him Josh still had a lot of egg feeders and every non egg feeder he had (and tried to offer to me to make up for our failed deal) came up on a Taron list to sell at a show. he had commented lots of rare egg feeders to come, and since he wants his recent history to go away he is I assume smartly keeping a no profile in the hobby. Speculation on my part but I would take the odds.

[JimO]

There is so much to this whole issue that leaves me disillusioned. I finally spoke up on the DB thread and pissed off some people, but I'm sick of seeing people expressing righteous indignation about smugglers who get real quiet when their dream frog is put up for sale. I'm also sick of people who know what is going on pretending to be naive. We can rationalize all we want, but anyone who has done even a small amount of research knows which frogs are most likely smuggled. And yet they continue to sell like hotcakes.

[Mantisdragon91]

A question I'm curious about is the motivation of the people buying these questionable frogs. Are they buying them out of genuine interest in the species or as a status symbol and for bragging rights? Any thoughts on this?

[cbreon]

A question I'm curious about is the motivation of the people buying these questionable frogs. Are they buying them out of genuine interest in the species or as a status symbol and for bragging rights? Any thoughts on this?

I'm sure you realize much of what I am about to say Roman but for the consumption of others I will elaborate, my thought is both. Many of these frogs are beautiful frogs, that in combination with their size and obligate breeding habits make them especially interesting to some. Although, I think that the rarity makes them exciting too. Some want them for the status they represent, while others want them because its exciting to breed something rare. Also, the potential of trading rare offspring may give you access to other rare frogs. There are some people that want to do it the right way, which takes time to develop relationships and show your capabilities and find animals that are legal, and obvioulsy many that don't.

Some want them for the instant status it offers. Like it or not, buying some high end frogs does offer some benefits within certain circles, for newbs and novices that would otherwise take years to establish cred. Like many things, these shortcuts come with a price, both monetary and intangible.

In many ways, its up to the community to ask questions when questionable imports come in, and make the decision to not buy. Personally, I would have loved to purchase some vincenti, sylvaticus, etc, but will take the long-road and get them from a reliable and legitimate source. As another frogger once told me, its easy to get into trouble when you decide 'I gotta, gotta have these right now' and convince yourself that the origins aren't that shady. Furthermore, think about who you are buying from, although the frogs might be legal, do you really want to support bad people, with poor reputations. I wouldn't frequent a business with a bad rep or bad business dealings in the outside world, and I wouldn't buy frogs from an asshole, even if they had something I really wanted.

[frogface]

Mark said:

Rich I could not prove it but after my fiasco with him Josh still had a lot of egg feeders and every non egg feeder he had (and tried to offer to me to make up for our failed deal) came up on a Taron list to sell at a show. he had commented lots of rare egg feeders to come, and since he wants his recent history to go away he is I assume smartly keeping a no profile in the hobby. Speculation on my part but I would take the odds.

Weren't a bunch of people screwed by Josh Lucas recently? Are these same people now buying Josh Lucas's frogs through a frog laundering service? Am I getting this right? Is there something stronger than LOL? Maybe LMAO? What a strange hobby this has turned out to be.

[cbreon]

Mark said:

Rich I could not prove it but after my fiasco with him Josh still had a lot of egg feeders and every non egg feeder he had (and tried to offer to me to make up for our failed deal) came up on a Taron list to sell at a show. he had commented lots of rare egg feeders to come, and since he wants his recent history to go away he is I assume smartly keeping a no profile in the hobby. Speculation on my part but I would take the odds.

Weren't a bunch of people screwed by Josh Lucas recently? Are these same people now buying Josh Lucas's frogs through a frog laundering service? Am I getting this right? Is there something stronger than LOL? Maybe LMAO? What a strange hobby this has turned out to be.

I beleive the 'stronger' version your are looking for would be ROFL or LMFAO (not that shitty music group), that's my only net-speak for the day

[RichFrye]

Mark said:

Rich I could not prove it but after my fiasco with him Josh still had a lot of egg feeders and every non egg feeder he had (and tried to offer to me to make up for our failed deal) came up on a Taron list to sell at a show. he had commented lots of rare egg feeders to come, and since he wants his recent history to go away he is I assume smartly keeping a no profile in the hobby. Speculation on my part but I would take the odds.

Weren't a bunch of people screwed by Josh Lucas recently? Are these same people now buying Josh Lucas's frogs through a frog laundering service? Am I getting this right? Is there something stronger than LOL? Maybe LMAO? What a strange hobby this has turned out to be.

Yes , same people who cry they are screwed are the same people who continually reward the assholes in our hobby (and allow posts, and allow sales, and allow thefts...).
No laughing matter.
As a few have mentioned, some talk a good game , but when they are contacted , or read (clear adds) or see adds they are the first to get deals going. Knowing full well what's up. Even though they have claimed to be "gullible"...no emoticon to go along, sorry.