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first frogs just arrived. help!
#1

so my first frogs just arrived, they are three tinctorius oyapok. im sorta freaking out cause although i have done research, i dont entirely know what to expect. at first i put them in the viv that i had set up, because the breeder i got them from said that would be ok, but they looked REALLY small in the tank (a 20 gallon long) so i moved them to a sterilite storage container with sphagnum mos and a layer of leaf litter on the bottom. it also has a coco hut. i then fed them with ff's dusted with herptivite and repcal, but they dont seem to be eating at all really and i figured they would be hungry from the trip. they arent really doing much at all, except occasionally moving a tiny bit. is this normal?

Conor
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#2

It's not uncommon at all for frogs to be stressed from shipping. It's a tramatic experience to be packed up in a deli cup, placed in a dark box and shipped thousands of miles. Give them some time. Feed them and leave them alone. It's good that you've got them in a sterlite container. Feed them, spend a few minutes to see if they are eating and leave them be to acclimate. Make sure to take/send a fecal sample to a vet to check for parasites. Keep them in QT for 30 days or 3 clean fecals before you put them in their permanent tank. That way if there is something wrong with them you don't have to tear down the entire tank. But most of all be patient.

Jon
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#3

one more question. the container i have the lid doesn't quite lock shut. it sits snugly on top but isn't exactly sealed. should i get a new container for the humidity or do you think that's ok?

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Conor
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#4

I wouldn't worry about the lid too much. Just make sure you mist them regularly to maintain the proper humidity.

Jon
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#5

Like young Jonathan said:

1. Try not to bother them much for several days - always popping off the lid to check on them. Just feed them medium amounts of dusted flies - never so much that the flies are crawling over everything. Better yet to feed only medium or smaller amounts every day or even skip a day, rather than a big dump of flies.

2. Make sure you mist very well and the substrate is moist.

3. Leaf litter is ALWAYS good in ANY tank - permanent, temporary or quarantine.

can you post a few pics of the frogs and enclosure. Pics help a lot.

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#6

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Conor
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#7

i guess it didnt rotate them correctly...

Conor
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#8

They look very nice. I'm sure they are eating and will come around will big appetites soon enough !

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#9

Yes they do! Nice frog choice.

Glenn
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#10

thanks! i decided on tincs first and then sorta fell in love with oyapoks. im really happy with them

Conor
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#11

so one of my froglets died todaySad for the past two days he had been looking sort of off, like kinda slouched over instead of standing up straight and i hadn't ever seen it eat. the other two still look healthy and are eating. i removed the leaf litter and some of the sphagnum moss from the area where i found the frog. is this enough or should i clean the entire container?

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Conor
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#12

Hey Conor, sorry to hear about the loss of one of your new froglets. However this is a lot of good that can come out of this. This is a great teaching tool for you and a lot of other newer frog keepers. What you have experienced is the exact reason whey a lot of the more seasoned keepers strongly recommend QT and fecal testing along with swab DNA testing.

First of there could be any number of reasons why your froglet died. Perhaps the stress of shipping and being moved to a new environment was just enough to suppress the immune system and let some novel pathogen weaken it. If I were in your position this is what I would do. I would collect some fecal samples from the remaining frogs. Send them to Dr. Frye or another qualified amphibian vet. Perhaps there are parasites present, perhaps not. Who knows at this point. If there are parasites present, and you'll treat for them, and there is the possibility that because you put these frogs in their big tank first before moving them to the plastic tub, you may have to tear down, disinfect, and rebuild their final home. Otherwise you may risk a re-infestation once the remaining frogs are placed in there. Let's face it, to tear down their home and rebuild it after you've already done it once, would not be fun. Much easier to place the frogs immediately in QT containers and have the proper tests done to be 100% sure.
I would then contact Research Associates Laboratory in Dallas, TX about doing some DNA swabs. The two primary concerns would be Chytrid, followed by Ranavirus. Chytrid will kill frogs, and there is some debate as to how much Rana effects Dart Frogs, but always good to get them tested anyway.
I won't even talk about treatment at this point because that's putting the cart before the horse right now. The first thing to do is get fecals done and get the results back so you know which course of action you're going to have to take.
No matter what the result is initially the recommended course of action is to leave the frogs in QT for 3 days or for 3 clean fecal tests, which ever comes first. Usually even if I get 3 clean fecals I leave my frogs in QT for 30 days or longer.
I hope this helps you out a bit. Once again I'm sorry about your loss. This could be something as the stress doing in an already weak frog, or it could be something else. Without the proper testing and QT procedures it's hard to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

Jon
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#13

Jon,

A kid with his first 3 cobalt froglets is not...cannot....afford all that testing. It's noble and righteous to promote the q-tine and fecal route, but there NEEDS to be a medium range of course-of-action that some level of hobbyists can undertake.

that said, with the limited information available to arrive at a quick conclusion as to what caused the froglets demise...I would fashion a good ole' guess at these percentages:

1. 70% chance the froglet died from 'poor breeding' / genetics or dietary issues. All of which places onus of responsibility at the feet of the breeder / seller.

2. 30% chance the froglet had a disease or parasite.

In EITHER case. I would place the survivng frogs into a newly designed, never before frog-used temporary enclosure. I would also use at LEAST a 10 gallon fishy tank size and NEVER a showbox size or similar small plastic tote. Too small and snap on lids without decent airflow is....not good, for a q-tine tank.

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#14

as much as i would love to do all that testing, and trust me i really wish i could, its just not financially possible for me right now. but i understand the potential chytrid has. what i can do is get a brand new 10 gallon tank and set up a quarantine area. right now my first concern is making sure the remaining two frogs i have are as healthy and happy as possible

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Conor
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#15

Phil, I don't know if he is or isn't a kid or what he can or can't afford. I was just giving a kind of general guideline. Like you I suspect that the froglet that died was a weaker froglet, and just the simple stress of shipping and being placed into a new environment probably pushed it over the edge. Looking at Conor's posts he just got the frog two days ago. The frog was probably already in a weakened state to begin with. However, upon receiving the frogs, if they were immediately placed into a QT container we know for certain that the final "decked out viv" would be perfectly safe and parasite free. We don't know that now. I have no clue what size Sterlite container is being used for QT, could be large, could be small? Observation of the remaining frogs is prudent. To watch for any signs of inappropriate behavior such as the sluggishness or lack of appetite that the other one went through. If any of the others start acting funny, well certainly there is something going around.
Phil I'm a little disappointed in you. While this forum is certainly promoting and encouraging proper husbandry techniques and best practices, you've come up with an arbitrary "except in this case" type statement. Your post about not testing is akin to saying, I'm buying a new car, but I can't afford to do oil changes. In my humble opinion it's better to learn the right way from the start, rather than have to go back and relearn the right way later. Conor though new is obviously diligent as he noticed the behavior of the one frog was not normal as compared to the other two, hats off to him for that!! Good job!!
Conor don't let this little bump in the road discourage you. You obviously have done your homework and know what you're getting into (though you may not realize yet how addicting it is :wink: ) No one is impervious to this sort of thing happening as earlier this spring I purchased some frogs that came from someone of questionable character, and despite being tested and treated, I still lost one of the frogs. Stuff happens sometimes, but through proper practices we can hope to reduce the chance of incidents like this. Conor could you afford $23? I believe Dr. Frye charges $18 for the fecal test and priority mail to get the sample there is around $5. Even one fecal test couldn't hurt.

Jon
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#16

Im not sure how Phil knew my age, because i don't believe i mentioned it but Im 20 and trying to pay for college. but yes i can afford $23, i guess i just sort of assumed it would be much more than that

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Conor
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#17

Stress. Put in big tank, pull out of big tank, put in small box. Feed oh no not eating, pester frogs until one eats, no all of them eat. Mist, feed, and mess around with many times a day.

Leave the damn frogs alone people.

Use a bait station to help with feeding. And once a day. Helps with new frogs.

Don't worry, it happens to us all. It sucks.

This is what happens most often. Not saying it happened here but it's the usual case.

Gabe,
TWI/ASN
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#18

A bait station like a slice of banana or something like that?

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Conor
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#19

Yes.

tritium Wrote:A bait station like a slice of banana or something like that?

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#20

Conor, how are the frogs doing now? Can we have an update?

Jon
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