Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

Oophaga sylvaticus smuggling -- Wikiri
#1

In case you hadn't read it, this is the latest bad news concerning smuggling in Ecuador re Oophaga sylvaticus .

http://notiwikiri.blogspot.com/
Reply
#2

Huh... Taron they are on to you. Good luck with all that.


Sean

Sean Pennington
Reply
#3

Just because I have run into something like this before.

UE is the only one that Wikiri deals with, correct?

So unless they come from UE they are illegal.



-Byron
Reply
#4

Wow....the Ecuadoran Government specifically mentions us - the U.S hobby FORUMS !!

That's very humbling because it means we are at least somewhat in control of our Hobby. NOW it's up to us to shun and weed out the smugglers. Like Jon says ' if ya buy from a smuggler, you may as well BE a smuggler'.

but on that note...not ALL E.U animals should be considered 'smuggled'. The few times I spoke with Dutch hobbyists by phone, we discussed a sort of a frog/animal affidavit of captive breeding and bill of sale. The Dutch already have such a thing internally, for their country and some EU countries.

It was assumed that once ANY legally imported morph of sylvaticus hit the U.S, then smuggled frogs of that same species would follow. With the E.U vanzolinni of 2009 import by Sean Stewart, virtually all vanzo's were effectively washed. Even though this 2012 'Paru" import are somewhat phenotypically diverse, we are still going to see some smuggling of similar looking animals.

Bottom line....WE are all shepherds of this hobby. The hobby belongs to the responsible and right thinking people as much as it does to every other hobbyist who says ' Don't tell me what to do". You can be sure that Dart Den will always fight the good fight against smuggling.

https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
Reply
#5

Philsuma Wrote:. NOW it's up to us to shun and weed out the smugglers. Like Jon says ' if ya buy from a smuggler, you may as well BE a smuggler'.

I've made it a point to not obtain frogs from certain froggers who knowingly have allowed these smuggled frogs into their collections. I also refuse to have frogs in my collection that are from these people or are offspring of their frogs. Unfortunately greed and lack of integrity compromise our hobby... I agree, we need to weed these guys out!
Reply
#6

SnakePaparazzi Wrote:I've made it a point to not obtain frogs from certain froggers who knowingly have allowed these smuggled frogs into their collections. I also refuse to have frogs in my collection that are from these people or are offspring of their frogs. Unfortunately greed and lack of integrity compromise our hobby... I agree, we need to weed these guys out!

Well that list is getting shorter and shorter. There a lot of "reputable hobbyists" that have questionable animals in their collections.




Sean

Sean Pennington
Reply
#7

heyduke Wrote:Well that list is getting shorter and shorter. There a lot of "reputable hobbyists" that have questionable animals in their collections.




Sean
Not positively reputable in my opinion if they knowingly accept smuggled or otherwise illegal frogs.
Reply
#8

Glad this board allows these conversations!

"I don't want to believe, I want to know" Carl Sagan(my fav. stonerSmile
Reply
#9

aaronsfrogfarm Wrote:Glad this board allows these conversations!
I agree.
Locking threads because the content makes some feel uncomfortable really doesn't help anyone.

It's obvious that the hobby has been noticed and by disallowing discussion and disclosure of illegal or questionable dealers / hobbyists can only hurt all of us in the end.


Sean

Sean Pennington
Reply
#10

heyduke Wrote:There are a lot of "reputable hobbyists" that have questionable animals in their collections.
I would like to think this isn't the case. Most people seem to be very conservation minded and are against removing frogs from the wild illegally. I think people that buy questionable frogs are a minority. I think it's about time that we give ourselves a "pat on the back" as a hobby and let the positives outweigh the negatives for a change. How many keepers do you think have "questionable (lets call it what it is-illegal) frogs" compared to those that don't?

Best,

Glenn
Reply
#11

I wouldn't say it's 'a lot' either. I think it's a HIGHER percentage of the Older Hobbyists, than what we would think or like though.

The figure I'd like to most / quickly effect, is the new hobbyist trying to buy the sketchy stuff right off the bat.

I'm not sure it's so much 'guilt' felt by the other forum, as it is unfounded fear and unnecessary caution. Both of which definitely hurt the hobby. I think, if anything, USFW would be glad we are raising awareness and taking this head-on. Kind of like sweeping up our own 'house'.

https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
Reply
#12

I have be very outspoken against Taron, since the first time i met him.
But most of my posts were removed because i never bought anything from him. Guy tells me about his smuggling and how he gets them in, yet i can't post his words. I even said he maybe looking at federal charges, anyone still thinking I'm just starting drama for no reason...

I have ALWAYS been good at sweeping, if my broom doesn't get taken.



Philsuma Wrote:I'm not sure it's so much 'guilt' felt by the other forum, as it is unfounded fear and unnecessary caution. Both of which definitely hurt the hobby. I think, if anything, USFW would be glad we are raising awareness and taking this head-on. Kind of like sweeping up our own 'house'.

What some see as death, others see as beauty.


Casper
Reply
#13

I'm not sure how long the Understory 'Paru' waiting list was earlier this year but I know that everytime on clicked on their website it said something to the effect of "we've quit taking names because demand can't be filled." To go from that position to one where there are now a few 'Paru' available to whomever wants them says something, to me, about the amount of smuggling going on. A LOT of frogs must be coming out by illegal means for that many people to pull their names from the mailing list, IMO.

The UE and Wikiri partnership has the potential, IMO, to yield some amazing long-term results if given the financial backing and support it needs and deserves.
Reply
#14

frogfreak Wrote:
heyduke Wrote:There are a lot of "reputable hobbyists" that have questionable animals in their collections.
I would like to think this isn't the case. Most people seem to be very conservation minded and are against removing frogs from the wild illegally. I think people that buy questionable frogs are a minority. I think it's about time that we give ourselves a "pat on the back" as a hobby and let the positives outweigh the negatives for a change. How many keepers do you think have "questionable (lets call it what it is-illegal) frogs" compared to those that don't?

Best,

All I was trying to say is that there are indeed some well respected hobbyists out there that certainly have questionable animals in their possession. I'm certainly not going to be the lightning rod for outing what has been in plain sight for many years.

I will say, and did, that taron is the person that the announcement is talking about in regards to the US forums and shows. But that was pretty much a given... Right?

The people that purchase these questionable animals... And not just the ones connected with this.. Who at the same time denounce the practice whilst writing checks should not be put on a pedestal as frog gods.

Just sayin.




Sean

Sean Pennington
Reply
#15

zachk Wrote:I'm not sure how long the Understory 'Paru' waiting list was earlier this year but I know that everytime on clicked on their website it said something to the effect of "we've quit taking names because demand can't be filled." To go from that position to one where there are now a few 'Paru' available to whomever wants them says something, to me, about the amount of smuggling going on. A LOT of frogs must be coming out by illegal means for that many people to pull their names from the mailing list, IMO.

I really hope you are wrong, That would be extremely disappointing if your statement was anywhere close to being correct.


-Byron
Reply
#16

I think some people might have pulled out due to the frogs that were received. Some were not that attractive and for $500 a frog with as much variant as was being seen that was too much to spend on an unknown.


Sean

Sean Pennington
Reply
#17

....aaand I really hope Sean is correct.


-Byron
Reply
#18

See cited thread and dig into another 'Paru' thread.
I can't venture to say what the cause of anyone's re-thinking the situation may be, but for me it would be the lack of response from WIKIRI to simple , pointed questions from a customer.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6615&start=60

Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
Reply
#19

I have a question....

How does one go about smuggling frogs into the country? Can someone give me the basic run down on how you would smuggle frogs into the country?

-Byron
Reply
#20

Armson Wrote:....aaand I really hope Sean is correct.


-Byron

Hopefully optomistic.

Sean Pennington
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)