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"New" Locale Escudo and Grannies...
#1
Coupl'a recent newsworthy tidbits. I'll try to tract down exact sources and re-post articles here on this thread when I find them.

Valiente pennisula, Panama may have some 'mainland' pumilio that appear very similar in size AND colour to escudo populations.

There has been a report of a bumpy or granular looking from found in Panama that would seem to give thought to the possibility of being related to the Costa Rica Oophaga granulerfera.

Interesting stuff and quite possibly a good reason to regard 'Escudo" imports by source and year with more diligence.
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#2
Please do! Is there anty pictures of the new locale? Was it thought these have already came in with the SR imports?
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#3
lol...easy now...I saw these 2 news blurbs under more or less 'scientific announcements" BUT, Panama IS Panama, after all.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#4
There have been grannies found in Panama for years and years.
If I did know where they were located I'd sure as heck not post it for the world.
The two frogs you mention ( escudo 'looking' mainland obligate and Pananma grannies) have nothing to do with each other. There have been pictures and info posted by JP about his mainland which are similar to the escudo, which just happen to be the very closest mainland area to Escudo Island.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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#5
You may be referring to this pic?

Those are Ryans and my frogs. Valerie suggested they look like grannies because of the "granulated" nature.

[Image: 74654_10151289349418371_1749399346_n.jpg]
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#6
I might also exclaim that Ryans are highly variable, at least what came in on the shipment. Some look just like Escudo (except the red it slightly different), while others have spotting, more greyish then blue, etc. They are the same size as Escudo.
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#7
BluePumilio Wrote:I might also exclaim that Ryans are highly variable, at least what came in on the shipment. Some look just like Escudo (except the red it slightly different), while others have spotting, more greyish then blue, etc. They are the same size as Escudo.


from FB

Throughout Costa Rica and Panama there are a great variety of color morphs of the tiny (around 20mm long) strawberry poison frog (Oophaga pumilio). From the Valiente Peninsula in Panama, came this teeny tiny 'Ryan' morph of 'Oophaga pumilio’ with rather granular skin-- I suspect it represents a new species. ~Val
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#8
I think it'll be lumped with the Escudo.
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#9
So are you saying people will call these escudos or are you saying that it will be a seperate species like escudo?
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#10
I think he meant that if Escudo gets reclassified these will be considered a locale of that species.
ZG
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#11
Yep, that is what I meant. I could be wrong, but just an educated guess without looking at their genetic relations.
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#12
They do seem similar from pictures and measurements I've seen. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that there isn't as much support for splitting Escudo as there was at one time. I think it was JP who said that if you split Escudo, it would warrant the splitting of all island phenotypes into separate species since they are all genetically isolated from one another.
ZG
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#13
The research into the genetic relationships strongly suggest O. pumilio should be slit into three species. The CR clade, the Panama clade, and the "Escudo". The populations on the Valiente pennisula have not been looked at yet, but if they did not go into their own separate clade, they likely would go with the Escudo clade. Even the "mainland" populations show genetic flow, including isolated populations. However, right now there are clearly at least three evolutionary branches that have developed and warrant species status.

goods Wrote:They do seem similar from pictures and measurements I've seen. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that there isn't as much support for splitting Escudo as there was at one time. I think it was JP who said that if you split Escudo, it would warrant the splitting of all island phenotypes into separate species since they are all genetically isolated from one another.
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#14
Here is a paper.

http://bio-nica.info/Biblioteca/Hageman ... ndrial.pdf
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#15
Another neat paper, but I find it strange it doesn't use out-groups.

https://www.eeb.ucla.edu/Faculty/Shaffe ... on2008.pdf
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#16
Interesting. You read my mind haha...I was going to ask if you had any papers on it to read. Thanks!
ZG
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#17
[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]
Frogs
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#18
Very nice. ALL things considered...what are you referring to them as and what is the APPROX import date, at least year /season on those, Ray ?
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#19
Wait, wait. You mean there are pums in Panama that look a lot like other pums in totally different areas and they are totally different breeding populations !!??
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


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My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#20
Phil, those are Ryans from the latest import that Ray posted.

Philsuma Wrote:Very nice. ALL things considered...what are you referring to them as and what is the APPROX import date, at least year /season on those, Ray ?
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