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Wanted to get a bit more active and post something positive for once.
Thought Id share some pics of what I think is by far the most beautiful frogs I have ever owned and some of the few I kept back . Theyre exo viv is in a room which also serves as a kicksass lamp and stress reliever as I can sit in front of it and stare into it all day : )
Also a pic of froglet 1/4 . Theyre still coloring up and I hope they look like mom and dad. Enjoy!
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sidney ferrell Wrote:Wanted to get a bit more active and post something positive for once.
Thought Id share some pics of what I think is by far the most beautiful frogs I have ever owned and some of the few I kept back . Theyre exo viv is in a room which also serves as a kicksass lamp and stress reliever as I can sit in front of it and stare into it all day : )
Also a pic of froglet 1/4 . Theyre still coloring up and I hope they look like mom and dad. Enjoy!
Rabalas? Are these still in your collection or part of your collection you sold?
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No these are chiriqui and yeah I def still have. Theyre in one of the guest bedrooms. Theyre my favorite group by far. These patterns are just insane as you can see how perfect they are . Looks like they have a maze or something drawn on them.
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They look great man. When are you sending me these chiriqui froglets you " promised" me? :-)
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KGB Wrote:They look great man. When are you sending me these chiriqui froglets you " promised" me? :-) Just print froglet pic and cut and paste to an empty viv and wahlaa! You got chiriqui! ; )
These are yours as promised. Not sending small. End of march im comfy with. I sent wes the first batch too young and I think both kicked it quick.istake i cant make again on these
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Wow, they don't like like any chiriqui I've ever seen. Although they look very similar to the frogs Marcus was calling rambala, weird...
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cbreon Wrote:Wow, they don't like like any chiriqui I've ever seen. Although they look very similar to the frogs Marcus was calling rambala, weird... Chiriqui is what these came in as in 2011 along with sc esperanza and loma..
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These are not even close to the "Rambala" that came in... These are reticulated. The history of them can be traced back to the specific import on a photo thread on the other site. So lets not start that LOL
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Not even close, well, its the first pair of yellow chiriqui I have seen and the patterns arent that far off from the rambala through SNDF. I am not saying they shouldn't be called chiriqui, just commenting on how different they look...
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cbreon Wrote:Not even close, well, its the first pair of yellow chiriqui I have seen and the patterns arent that far off from the rambala through SNDF. I am not saying they shouldn't be called chiriqui, just commenting on how different they look... I believe you werent trying to stir anything...like I said in my ad...no bs on info from here on out but yes, they showed as chiriqui. as title says...best looking pumilio ive ever owned! : )
None alike
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Correct me if I am wrong but aren't rabalas found close to the Chiqiuri hospital? I always get confused when it comes to locations of where these pumilio are found since I haven't been there yet. Not trying to start stuff as I know a friend got a chiqiuri that had a lot of patterning back in 2011 too.
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rcteem Wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but aren't rabalas found close to the Chiqiuri hospital? I always get confused when it comes to locations of where these pumilio are found since I haven't been there yet. Not trying to start stuff as I know a friend got a chiqiuri that had a lot of patterning back in 2011 too.
you can almost make a case for rambala,bruno,chiriqui and guaramo all being the same frog no? Who knows...by the looks of my group..they may be a totally separate locale running close to the last mentioned. We can never know until the pickers send us photo proof of them at site,holding gps and a picture of gps screen as hes holding it. : )
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sidney ferrell Wrote:you can almost make a case for rambala,bruno,chiriqui and guaramo all being the same frog no? Who knows...by the looks of my group..they may be a totally separate locale running close to the last mentioned. We can never know until the pickers send us photo proof of them at site,holding gps and a picture of gps screen as hes holding it. : )
I got that but that didnt answer my questions. Im not saying your labeling them wrong. My pair of "rabalas" look like guaramos and other people agree, but I will call them SR 2012 Rabalas, so I agree with you calling them SR 2011 Chiqiri Grande. My question was how close is their locale to the rabalas?
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When describing them....be sure to say SR imports and the year.
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Philsuma Wrote:When describing them....be sure to say SR imports and the year. Actually theyre 2012 sr imports bc they came in in the first weeks of january if im not mistaken
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Thought id post this...new surprise batch just walked out. One froglet seems to have bright blue legs as for the others have grey legs. Lets see if it maintains those colors
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sidney ferrell Wrote:rcteem Wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but aren't rabalas found close to the Chiqiuri hospital? I always get confused when it comes to locations of where these pumilio are found since I haven't been there yet. Not trying to start stuff as I know a friend got a chiqiuri that had a lot of patterning back in 2011 too.
you can almost make a case for rambala,bruno,chiriqui and guaramo all being the same frog no? Who knows...by the looks of my group..they may be a totally separate locale running close to the last mentioned. We can never know until the pickers send us photo proof of them at site,holding gps and a picture of gps screen as hes holding it. : )
Rambala, Panama - near Chiriqui Grande - Don't see a Rabala - just Robalo and that's someplace else
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rambala,+...a&t=m&z=11
Also, and this one drives me nuts, a picture of a GPS unit with its readout will only tell you where a frog was collected - ie the frogs locale and inclusion in a population. It will not definitively exclude it from being in part of another nearby population. The only thing that can exclude a frog would be studies to verify that genes cannot flow between populations (population sinks).
Case in point - the Paru sylvatica have shown that the frogs smuggled out of the area around Lita locale are not good representatives the overall population of frogs as there appears to be genetic flow between Lita and Durango etc (the reason for the flow is under investigation). The Lita locale is not really a distinct population and why and for how long is being studied.
So in order to tell if the "Rambala" aren't "Chiriqui Grande" you would need the GPS coordinates from the collection of the "Rambala" and the "Chiriqui Grande" and then a study that shows that there would be no way for genes to flow between them - like a large river or a mountain range. Manmade things can be population sinks too, but it muddies the water even more.
There's the problem, the situation with these frogs is muddy and human nature with its stereotypes (not just for racists anymore) and schemas result in us trying to squeeze things into little boxes - little boxes that may not exist in reality.
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Chris Miller Wrote:Case in point - the Paru sylvatica have shown that the frogs smuggled out of the area around Lita locale are not good representatives the overall population of frogs as there appears to be genetic flow between Lita and Durango etc (the reason for the flow is under investigation). The Lita locale is not really a distinct population and why and for how long is being studied.
Hey Chris, what is your info based on? A study? I thought that Lita was a generally accepted locale...
Chris Miller Wrote:There's the problem, the situation with these frogs is muddy and human nature with its stereotypes (not just for racists anymore) and schemas result in us trying to squeeze things into little boxes - little boxes that may not exist in reality.
My elaboration of your point would be that we are somewhat forced to create these little boxes in an attempt to manage these frogs and their populations. When we start with poor information it makes this a much more difficult, arguably impossible, task. But w/out some sort of management we are even more likely to end up with mud in the end...Although, the management of the imports has come light years since the 90's, early 2000's and for the most part, the pumilio imports seem to breed true so far...
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cbreon Wrote:Hey Chris, what is your info based on? A study? I thought that Lita was a generally accepted locale...
Personal investigation with some researchers down there. I'm not saying it isn't a locale - it clearly is as plenty of frogs have come out of there and the smugglers had no reason to lie about where they came from. It's just that we didn't have a clear idea on the entire population range down there and that leads me to think it's not a distinct population. IE, there isn't a pocket of frogs around Lita that are completely isolated from all other sylvatica populations.
Quote:My elaboration of your point would be that we are somewhat forced to create these little boxes in an attempt to manage these frogs and their populations. When we start with poor information it makes this a much more difficult, arguably impossible, task. But w/out some sort of management we are even more likely to end up with mud in the end...Although, the management of the imports has come light years since the 90's, early 2000's and for the most part, the pumilio imports seem to breed true so far...
Right, my problem is that more along the lines of people drawing definitive conclusions without the proper information to back it up - saying something is or isn't from a population based on a picture or a picture and the word of someone.
The example boxes you draw up are real - there really is a group of "Rambala" pumilio imported by Strictly in 2012/13 and a group of "Chiriqui Grande" pumilio imported by Strictly in 2011. One can say that the "Rambala SR 12 pumilio" aren't the same imports as the "Chiriqui Grande SR 11 pumilio" based on the info we have that they came in on different imports. One cannot say whether or not they were collected out of the same population since we don't know exactly where they were collected and what the boundaries of the population(s) are.
Same would go for Rich's Robalo and the "Robalo SR 2013" frogs. We can say they aren't the same imports but we can't say that they are or aren't from the same population. We know where Rich's came from and what population they belong to but we have no definitive information on where the SR ones came from and if that location is contained within the same one as Rich's frogs. I know its a tedious detail, but accuracy is highly important when it comes to managing these frogs. People shouldn't confuse the lack of information with proof in one direction or the other.
I also accept/espouse that when there isn't proof that the frogs need to be managed at the level where we do have info. Which generally means keeping frogs separate by import year and possibly individual import at the extreme. Also, please don't take this as me arguing with you.
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