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Grow out tank construction ?
#1
Couldn't find a thread soooo....what kind of setup? Size, substrate,and all that good stuff.
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#2
No one wants to help? I guess ill wing it.
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#3
4 hours..lol.....we have you spoiled Zach.

What species ? Makes a big difference as to type and size of grow-out....

1. Pothos...lots of it....no dirt at all....clean root

2. Clean leaf liter - magnolia leaves

similar philosophy as a temp tank or even q-tine tank for most people. Some people go all out and make their temp tanks more showy with broms and such. Not any easy 'black and white answer" here.
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#4
LOL, sorry.....guilty as charged. gong to be for Nominal/green imitators (not sure which is proper at this point)
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#5
There are a couple differing opinions and schools of though here....

Some terminology:

Quarantine Tank - Bare furnishings. @ 40 days

Temporary Tank - Bare furnishings. Anywhere from days to up to a year, for instance

Grow-out Tank - Can be minimal / bare furnishings but can also be well planted. If the goal is to get the frogs to sufficient size to sell to other hobbyists, than it can be similar to those listed above but if a grow-out tank is another useful tank in your frog room and all the frogs that get placed in it are going to get put into larger vivs of yours in your home, than the grow out tank can be more fully planted.

There is really no 'horrible" or fail way of describing this, but again, it's based on if you are raising them up to transfer to others or if you are just providing another level of care prior to keeping the frogs for yourself and placing them into a larger viv.

NOW the contents of a quarantine enclosure...THAT'S much easier to describe.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#6
So what your saying is......build it and they will grow. I do apreciate the info all jokes aside.was hoping some folks would post some pics of current or past tanks. I feel like I know what need be done know though.
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#7
I use a bunch of 10 gals. I think I'm done with live plants. When It comes time to catch the little buggers I end up having to cut or yank the plants...roots growing all over leaves, it's a pita. When I treat frogs I keep fake plants in the tank. When it's time to move the frogs and sterilize the tank those fake plants are just too easy. The next grow out that I destroy while catching frogs will have fake plants when it's set back up.
brad
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#8
Philsuma Wrote:There are a couple differing opinions and schools of though here....

Some terminology:

Quarantine Tank - Bare furnishings.

.


I see some arguments which say that they need to put animals into a "bare " enclosure for 'proper quarantine' ???
My question is , who exactly with any experience or credit is endorsing "bare" quarantine enclosure?

It bugs that crap out of me whan it's used as an excuse to not be able to clean out infected crap from a very nicely engineered temp enclosure.

I'll state this. Nobody I trust or respect is saying there is a benefit to a "bare", "spartan", or any other term other than stress free environment.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#9
'Bare' was used for expediency and lack of betters terms.

'Bare" as in bereft of ANYTHING can stress a frog due to lack of security. i.e nothing but a frog in a fishbowl.

'Bare" can also mean nothing in the enclosure but 250 yards of pothos (no dirt) in which a frog would feel very secure (one would hope).
https://www.facebook.com/dartden/

https://twitter.com/DartDen


"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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#10
Right, not arguing your personal use of the word...I argue against the few who say or think a Q tank needs to be what most of us consider spartan, bare or essentially and finally , stressful and not a true quarantine tank.
It's an excuse for those who throw their frogs into a planted tank...which may have had ten , twenty or fifty other groups of who knows how many species, with who knows what ...never escaping moist soil.
Simple. :wink:
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#11
Here was a helpful post from Casper on his 20L:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6384&start=60&hilit=casper+froglet#p42171

I've used a 20L, 2.5's, and sterilite bins (shoebox and sweater box size) for grow outs. Personally I prefer tanks....I use turface, sphagnum, then ~2" of leaf litter (live oak lower bed, sea grape on top) for azureus grow outs. The 20L was well planted, but I found it easier to use more smaller tanks since I had such a spread in froglet ages (1 to 4 months) and I could tear them down / clean / set them up again pretty easily. It's also easier to feed with a standard glass top instead of "snapping" a lid on and off. Either way, I use the same substrate strategy.

Good luck! Post pics of what you come up with!
Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#12
A 5 gallon tank and glass lid with lot's of leaf litter. More is added when the cups are pulled.

[Image: dscf0104li.jpg]
Glenn
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#13
Very helpful, I now have a direction and idea of what to do.
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#14
What I'd personally do is use the 190oz tubs per frog. Nothing wrong with a 2.5, 5 or 10 gallon tanks either.
Pothos, hides and substrate.
All the substrate (which may be paper towel or leaf litter) at each cleaning while in quarantine needs to be tossed out, and sanitize all plants before going back in.
Film cans for hides. Tanks kept in low light areas.
There is no reason at all to feed an adult , healthy looking dart (or at least one with good body weight) every day. Two -three times a week is plenty and will cut down on stress.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#15
I use 190oz tubs as well.
Glenn
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#16
I'd also like to specify that the above info , from me, is for quarantine , which is much more rigid in what I personally do than with grow out tanks.
IF the parents have already been through full and proper quarantine , and I find them to be healthy, by my bar, then there is not reason not to place the offspring (which would still benefit from at least a fecal or so before moving) into a well aged full blown viv.
The main help with putting the offspring into the aged full size viv, for obligates especially, is getting all the nutrients from the microfauna which has been feasting on all things calcium saturated for many years.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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#17
A 20 gallon grow out with 12-15 froglets.

[Image: L1040825_zps66a48059.jpg]

When I find a tad popping fronts, it goes in a grow out.

[Image: L1040823_zps624aefbd.jpg]
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.


If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.

My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
Reply
#18
Fwiw here is my azureus setup; former TV cabinet. I shifted former fry tanks over to froglet tanks, so I stuck with 2.5 gallons to keep things consistent. Eggs are in upper left tank. Tads are in cups on top shelf. Froglets in tanks. Upper tanks are being prepped for new froglets. Isopod cultures and supplies below. Doors hide everything when guests are around.
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Interesting what a variety of solutions are out there! Glad you started this thread.
Jim from Austin --- Lorenzo keepers PM me about a US breeding program
lorenzo | nominant fants | highlands | summersi | bakhuis | azureus

http://www.oneillscrossing.com/dart-frogs
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#19
Me too, learning a lot.
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#20
another aspect of any sort of tank - q-tine, temp or grow out, is the number of occupants.

I placed 4 Ranitomeya vanzolinii in a 10 gallon vert grow out that was 'medium-ly' planted. One day I saw one of the vanzo's stretched out on a brom leaf, freshly expired. I am fairly certain it was stress induced from having 3 tankmates in such a small enclosure. Thumbnails grow very fast - mature and can obviously stress each other out more than we think.

I personally feel ok with having a small group - 2-4 maybe 5 Tinc type frogs in a grow up, but I'm now, less inclined to house more than 1-2, maybe 3 of any other type of Dart. My 02.
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"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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