Current 'Hobby Expectations" for bugs, feeder insect sales

[Philsuma]

Let's get a broad sample of just what constitutes good feeder cultures and bad feeder cultures for sale ?

Too many bugs, not enough bugs ? Inactive bugs, dead bugs.

Amounts of insects - FF, Isopods.

Time of delivery and packaging.

Ect

Ect

Let's hear from people here on the forums on what they expect and consider good, or not good.

[Philsuma]

Here's another good thread to tie into this one, in the meantime...

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4369

[Rusty_Shackleford]

If I were buying feeders, ff's specifically, I'd want to know whether this culture is producing or it's just been seeded. If I were buying a culture it would mean something happened to mine and I would need feeder flies right away. I wouldn't want to expect a blooming culture only to have to wait two weeks to get flies from it.
When I've bought ff cultures in the past and had them shipped to me, I tried to do it as local as possible. The less shipping
the better with ff's.

[Philsuma]

In some cases, depending on the description and price, I can totally see a culture of 6-8 adult Isopods being sold. As long as the seller goes to lengths to accurately describe that it is not a booming / producing culture and only a starter culture.

I think there is a common misconception that all insect cultures must be overflowing with bugs, and that's just not the case.

[frogfreak]

The less shipping
the better with ff's.

I agree and usually ship them at a week old or just under. Many times the flies won't make it, but the larvae will.

Of course, I always explain this to the buyer before sending them. They can always toss a culture in the tank and feed larvae, until the second cultures hatches.

[RichFrye]

I generally have a very hard time thinking of a bad bug shipment...
It's probably due to the fact I can't remember a recent time I've have personally bought bugs. That's what fellow hobbyists and the great outdoors are for.
I can remember trading, being given bugs, giving bugs away, etc. , but I think I'd have to go all the way back to 2004 or 2005 to where I have actually paid for bugs. If I remember correctly they had some additional tiny little black bugs in the cultures and when I mentioned it to the guy who no longer sells bugs for a living, he said that he had no idea what I was talking about, pertaining to the additional black infections.
There is absolutely a place for good bug sales and I applaud those who provide good and varied feeders. 'New' blood and new feeders are important . I've just not thought much about those who sell them I guess, except you Glenn.

[frogfreak]

I generally have a very hard time thinking of a bad bug shipment...
It's probably due to the fact I can't remember a recent time I've have personally bought bugs. That's what fellow hobbyists and the great outdoors are for.
I can remember trading, being given bugs, giving bugs away, etc. , but I think I'd have to go all the way back to 2004 or 2005 to where I have actually paid for bugs. If I remember correctly they had some additional tiny little black bugs in the cultures and when I mentioned it to the guy who no longer sells bugs for a living, he said that he had no idea what I was talking about, pertaining to the additional black infections.
There is absolutely a place for good bug sales and I applaud those who provide good and varied feeders. 'New' blood and new feeders are important . I've just not thought much about those who sell them I guess, except you Glenn.

Thanks Rich,

The only reason I sell them is to try and move the hobby forward here. Most times they are given away when buying frogs. Do I like looking after them, nope. Do we need one stop shopping here for bugs, yep. Someone's gotta do it and I'm it. For the time being, anyways.

[RichFrye]

You are one of the good guys for sure Glenn.

I generally have a very hard time thinking of a bad bug shipment...
It's probably due to the fact I can't remember a recent time I've have personally bought bugs. That's what fellow hobbyists and the great outdoors are for.
I can remember trading, being given bugs, giving bugs away, etc. , but I think I'd have to go all the way back to 2004 or 2005 to where I have actually paid for bugs. If I remember correctly they had some additional tiny little black bugs in the cultures and when I mentioned it to the guy who no longer sells bugs for a living, he said that he had no idea what I was talking about, pertaining to the additional black infections.
There is absolutely a place for good bug sales and I applaud those who provide good and varied feeders. 'New' blood and new feeders are important . I've just not thought much about those who sell them I guess, except you Glenn.

Thanks Rich,

The only reason I sell them is to try and move the hobby forward here. Most times they are given away when buying frogs. Do I like looking after them, nope. Do we need one stop shopping here for bugs, yep. Someone's gotta do it and I'm it. For the time being, anyways.

[frogfreak]

Thanks Rich!

I had a very good friend, who has a very large collection, go on a fishing trip recently. His wife was left to look after his collection. She got a little panicky that she was low on food and contacted me about getting some flies. She came over, was handed 24 blooming cultures (free of charge) and went home relieved that she wouldn't run out of food.

I love being able to do this. 24 cultures out of my fly stock and it doesn't even put the smallest dent in my production.

I also supply a few pet stores, which pays for all of my culturing. In turn, that makes feeders even more widely available. Hopefully, more people will get into Darts.

Cheers,

[Philsuma]

don't begrudge people trying to earn a fair dollar for their work with distributing feeder insects throughout the hobby. The good ones charge a fair price and provide stellar customer service. Jeremy Huff comes to mind here. He uses his full name to further develope excellent hobby and business credibility, and that goes a LONG way with me.

[RichFrye]

don't begrudge people trying to earn a fair dollar ...

...
There is absolutely a place for good bug sales and I applaud those who provide good and varied feeders. 'New' blood and new feeders are important . I've just not thought much about those who sell them I guess, except you Glenn.

Since there are only three people posting now, I am assuming you may be directing this at me?
I personally have no need for purchasing bugs. That by no means I begrudge anyone for supplying a needed ( for many, just not myself) service Phil.

[frogfreak]

don't begrudge people trying to earn a fair dollar for their work with distributing feeder insects throughout the hobby. The good ones charge a fair price and provide stellar customer service. Jeremy Huff comes to mind here. He uses his full name to further develope excellent hobby and business credibility, and that goes a LONG way with me.

I don't see that happening here, Phil. People offering feeder insects for sale is absolutely crucial to the hobby, IMO.

[mattolsen]

I believe sometimes people have extremely high expectations for bug cultures unless ad is outlined with details.

First off, when isopods/springs arrive(especially in colder weather) and even in warm, they may not be moving around or they may not notice a lot of bugs. Depending on shipping, either a lack of oxygen or temps keep the bugs in a sort of suspended animation. Simply open the lid for an hour or so and once they warm up you'll notice they're in there. I've had several people throw out cultures before doing this. I almost did the same the first time I ordered, the seller told me to wait and do as stated above, and in a couple days I saw a lot of bugs.

Next, bugs may die during shipping for many reasons; box getting knocked around, cold or hot temps, bugs get smashed by substrate. In most cases if you wait a couple weeks and feed a bit you'll have bugs in the culture, just not as many as you expect initially. I once had a culture sent to me that took 2-3 weeks to show bugs but sure enough, they appeared.

If you want much better quality cultures, opt for overnight shipping. You'll lose much fewer bugs in transit. Otherwise bugs will generally be shipped 2-3 day and this means shipping generally only occurs Mon-Thurs but I generally don't past wednesday.

Mites and other critters..... anyone who breeds a large scale of bugs and even those who don't may likely experience mites. First, not all mites are there to eat your bugs. Second, I may be wrong but I believe keeping a few isopods in your culture helps. Whether they eat them or not, it seems to help. If you experience mites I've found that springtails and isopods can handle much higher temps than mites can. Therefore take the container and microwave it for 1-4 mins in 1-2min intervals mixing substrate in between until you notice the good bugs in hyperdrive and the mites dead.

Lastly, some cultures may come with a mix of bugs occasionally. If this is totally against what you want let your seller know upfront bc most of us don't care as in the wild there are tons of species in one environment.

Personally, I breed a large variety of springtails, isopods, and micropods and have had some issues with buyers bc of miscommunication and shipping issues. It sucks bc I mainly do this for locals and my collection and try to offer it to others here and there. It's a lot of work sometimes and I guess maybe I'm inherently bias, but I believe there should be more discussion on this topic bc it's a great addition to your frogs diet and why let expectations get in the way? Last thing I'll say..... check outside by your house for new species. I literally have a breeding ground of giant black springs right outside my front door. Look in lava rocks, wood piles, under leaves, etc.Take some notes on where you find them and keep them in that manner.

If you have any questions pm me and I'll try to help answer your questions .

[Philsuma]

Therefore take the container and microwave it for 1-4 mins in 1-2 min intervals mixing substrate in between until you notice the good bugs in hyperdrive and the mites dead.

Interesting. I may have to start a thread on bug microwaving. I wouldn't have guessed this to be effective.

[mho]

Therefore take the container and microwave it for 1-4 mins in 1-2 min intervals mixing substrate in between until you notice the good bugs in hyperdrive and the mites dead.

Interesting. I may have to start a thread on bug microwaving. I wouldn't have guessed this to be effective.

Did you ever try the "microwave bug thingy"?

[Philsuma]

I never did, no.

[joneill809]

In my limited experience, microwaving the culture prior to seeding with flies was not as effective as dusting and sifting the seed flies. In my case, mites were transported from culture to culture on the flies. I have not had any mite outbreaks since I began mechanical removal of mites. I do boil my water prior to mixing my media, but that's about it. I also tried in culture mite chemicals but they too were not as effective as sifting for me.

I had trouble with mites from a commercial frog vendor. I ended up restarting my cultures with flies from a fly vendor that supplies the pet industry and labs. His flies were much cleaner, but more expensive. It was worth it in my opinion.

Just my experiences. I'm sure others have different methods. Sifting is a bit of a pain but worth it. I only setup eight cultures a week so it's not a big deal for me.

As far as the original topic goes, I have shipped flies 5 times. I've had dead cultures arrive twice for a 60% success rate. My expectations on shipping flies are not that high , but going into it I expected better. The vendors were good about replacing the losses. The only shocking shipment for me was when I got a hydei culture that yielded a layer of mites one inch deep instead of flies. So QT your flies too.

[Dendro_Dave]

As far as microwaving bugs... It should work if the media is moist and it gets hot enough. But I have watched a fruit fly go into the microwave with some food I was cooking, and fly out when it was done. I don't know how that is possible since they have moisture in them, and microwaves cook things by exciting the molecules. I can only guess that most of the waves were absorbed by the food, but still you'd think a fruit fly would cook pretty fast.