Fruit fly media made thicker ?

[Aarono Engstromo]

Any good tips for what to add when FF media is too wet and runny? I'm too lazy to measure proper portions. Its easy to add water when its dry, but what do you do when its too wet?

I've tried papertowels but it doesn't seem to help. It also perplexes me because the ppt clearly absorb water. :roll:

[Philsuma]

I never measure either. Just add more dry media.

[Aarono Engstromo]

yea, duh. Why am I adding papertowels and cardboard?

I suppose on a subconscious level I don't like adding more media to a culture that's already breeding the flies. Not sure why, something about the finality of starting a culture and then using it til it crashes.

[Philsuma]

When it's runny....let it sit for a few hours. Sometimes sitting a while tends to thicken it all by itself. Use hot water too.

[LuckyFrog]

So here is my question / solution on this subject......

(Long, but good read...for everyone who values the money/time saved, by culturing flys, using this method, plus I value my flies soooooooooooooo much, that I am scared that one day if they all crash, or i have no flies to feed my frogs, especially in the winter....)
Questions First, can someone answer....

Can the "Goop" that drips out be harmful to the frogs? (The goop contains, bad stuff? mold/rot?)
If the frogs eat the flys?
If it gets into the system?
As I have pumps under the Expanded Clay, that go into the misting systems/drips throughout the tank/tanks?

I have tried, paper towels/more media, more media always works, but like you said, something about using the culture till it crashes is what I do as well...
I hate waste, adding more food to me seems, like I should just make a new culture, as I need the food for that, not to soak up excess moisture....Grrrrr

The boys in my family, keep using my Kitty Kat's litter to soak up their grease/oil on the floor...
When I need to change my Cats litter, I never have enough for its intended purpose, None to fill a clean litter box.
So I bought them, sawdust, at one third the cost, and 4 times the volume...They leave my kitty alone.

Here is my Fly solution...
I do not add extra food anymore, to absorb moisture....

When I feed, to avoid the dripping " GOOP "/" Falling excelsior "/" Mixing types of flies (except for only feeding)"....

I use 2 containers....
The 1st is for collection from a culture, as I collect from a culture I dump the flies into THE 2ND clean container....
As I collect I dump into the 2nd container.
The 2nd container is what I add vitamins for coating, Then I feed my froggies.

Simple, if the collection 1st container gets " GOOPED " it does not mess up all my collected flys.

Then, to use these " GOOPED " flys, I simply "rinse" the flys, by swirling some water in the container, collect in a strainer, dump back into the same container with a dry paper towel.
I come back 10 minutes or so later " ALL " the flys are fine, LICKED DRY AND CLEAN, ALL ON THE PAPER TOWEL....
I shake out the paper towel and feed those unlucky ones who thought they made it out alive.... LOL.
It works 100% every time, it never fails me, it makes collection & feeding easy.

I am sure many of you already do this.....

To avoid the moisture in the 1st place.....

I am trying this now, I had made 40 cultures... ( I have 3 kinds of flys )

In Jasons Juchems book he uses Excelsior & coffee filters, seems simple....

So I thought to try it, if for a couple of these reasons...

I kinda just like the idea of the coffee filters " holding on to the Excelsior " Using this method, The excelsior doesn't fall out as much, so when I feed, the flys don't " PLOOP " out more than what I need, because they are all on the excelsior pieces, the excelsior also looks ugly in my tanks...

I used on sale, but good quality, perforated filters, that seem to hold up to not getting THAT soggy, and if they do...
They fold down over onto the excelsior anyway, which holds them up, AND THE COFFEE FILTERS ABSORB the extra moisture....

I have not had ANY drip doing it this way, you can use any food media you like, I am using a few to try...they all work.

It does increase the surface area of my cultures, I have more flys.....

NO:

" GOOP DRIP "
" FALLING BITS OF EXCELSIOR "
" ENTIRE BALL OF EXCELSIOR ROLLING OUT , BLECHHHHH! "

Thank you Jason!!!!!!!

TA DA!

I have spoken!!!!!

My frogs & I thank you all, for your audience, and hope it works for you, as it does me!

I think This site has the best people, the best info on the hobby, the best pics....
I have learned alot from all of you.

Thank you!

So I am giving back, I hope this works for you, as me.


Ribbit, Ribbit.

[cbreon]

Wow, that is pretty lazy :lol:

Can I persuade you to go buy some measuring cups at the dollar store or some place cheap to measure?

All you need is: 1/3 cup media, 1/2 cup hot water. Swirl it around in the cup until the water is absorbed. Microwave 30 seconds (optional). Put excelsior, paper towels, coffee filters, or whatever else in. Then add you flies from newest cultures (prefferably 5-10 days old). Store on mite paper. Throw out any cultures once they are 3-4 weeks old. This routine has not failed me once in the 5+ years I have been using it and it has worked with every ff media I have used. The cultures are never too wet or dry and they never fail, furthermore I have not had any mite issues.

It will take you a few extra minutes a week to use this routine and it should save you some frustrations and worrying. Seems like a pretty easy decision to me...

[Ghostvivs]

I have producing Turkish gliders and wingless cultures that are almost 45 days old that are mite free... so that 3 to 4 week expiration date is not a law... :wink:


Now with the hydei I agree ...

And to the OPs question. I just fold up 3 or 4 coffee filters into a triangle and stick the point into the media, next day you will be good to go.

[Rusty_Shackleford]

LuckyFrog,
Are you using that nasty waste water from the bottom of your tank to mist your frogs?


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[LuckyFrog]

We have the Monsoon, and we have a misting system set up in the larger tanks, made from PVC.
We are setting up a 125 for Terribilis, that will have a filtration system in it.
Sometimes I hand mist.

So what else am I doing wrong????????

[LuckyFrog]

Not Terribilis....Phyllobates bicolor

Sorry, had to get the spelling and the name right.

[Rusty_Shackleford]

We have the Monsoon, and we have a misting system set up in the larger tanks, made from PVC.
We are setting up a 125 for Terribilis, that will have a filtration system in it.
Sometimes I hand mist.

So what else am I doing wrong????????

I may just have misunderstood you. I thought you were pumping out the water from your false bottom and using it in your mist system.


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[Philsuma]

The things with FF media and cultures is....it's one of both the hardest and the easiest issues of our hobby. I'm not fully sure what that means, but it has a catchy ring to it, but seriously, FF media and fly production is all about Repetition and Confidence. When we ALL first start doing it, so many different things go wrong - hence the 'hard' part. It's a given, but then by the same token, when you make a bunch over a long period of time, you will soon gain experience and confidence and then no measuring will be needed and you will be able to make perfect cx's in your sleep.

Just takes a little time and experience.

[Rusty_Shackleford]

There is an art and science to making ff cultures. Absolutely some experimentation and a lot of tweaking. What works for you in the summer months, may have to be adjusted in winter months. I strongly reccomend all new froggers to start making ff cultures 6 weeks to 2 months ahead of when they actually plan to get frogs. The learning curve isn't dangerously steep, but why take a chance on running out of food when really for just a few dollars of expense you can practice and her it right before your frogs arrive. I would have to say ff cultures are the number 2 complaint/question for new hobbyists, right behind number 1, my frogs are hiding all the time.


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[Chuck Lawson]

^^^^ What they said.

I've been making cultures for over a year, had the routine down cold, made 'em every weekend like clockwork, always worked.

Moved six miles to a different house, same climate, same temp on the thermostat, etc. Went about my routine, wasn't paying attention, and a few weeks ago, all of my cultures molded up and crashed.

I didn't account for different airflow in the room, and my recipe that worked perfectly before ended up staying too wet in the new place. I'd noticed the media had been running a bit soupy, but otherwise didn't pay any attention and didn't make any adjustments until it all crashed. Then I had to scramble, source some other FF cultures real quick (thanks Ghostvivs!), and start adjusting my media mix to work in the new location. Of course, it takes takes weeks to see the full results of making a change, so I'll be at it for awhile getting everything dialed in again.

Practice, observe, adjust -- and when you think you have it right, don't stop paying attention.

[LuckyFrog]

Chuck, that is some of the best Advice , thank you for reminding me/us... Never stop paying attention.

We breed birds have been for over 20 years, we use Joe Frieds, Brooders.
I had an idea one day when I read, that some people lose all their flies....

This was even before we started to make our own cultures....We used to just buy 4 from Petco for the month, and alternate the jars and we always had enough flies...We did not have that many frogs back then...



I decided to use one of our large brooder units, that we use to raise macaws, just for flies.
I have my emergency flies/breeding flies in one of the units, as I can control , air/ heat /humidity.....

Before using the brooder, we have had mites in the past, we bought Petco Fruit flies as a quick solution.... $120.00 later, we was so mad at ourselves for not being prepared, to say the least....
Until we were able to stock back up on our flies, all mite free...it cost us over $250.00 to feed our frogs in that month.

Another time, like you, not paying attention for whatever reason, all our cultures were black and moldy, one crashed right after the other.... I was so mad, at myself.

So I went into the nursey, and pulled some emergency flies/made more.

We have not spent any money on flies, in a longtime.
When we bought frogs from Black Jungle, they are always are kind to give us flies as well, so there is our fresh stock of flies, and we make new cultures right away.

I am no professional your guys here are my teachers.
Bird questions? Yes, I am a professional...

I am still learning everyday about my frogs...

When Rusty asked:

LuckyFrog,
Are you using that nasty waste water from the bottom of your tank to mist your frogs?

I was not clear, when I asked about the goop getting into the sytems.......
(BTW, no one answered any of my questions, I am not a dope, but just wanna know.)

I am so anal about my frogs...
....that I pick clean all my Spag Moss, of any sticks/twigs/burrs.... Spending long amounts of time doing it...
....I use Poland spring water bottles and just attach a mister top to it, to hand spray our birds/frogs/orchids......

I do other anal things about my frogs, but I wont embarrass myself ...lol
I know no one runs around in nature to protect the frogs, but I can try to avoid any injury that I think can happen.

Thanks For listening.

[RichFrye]

I'm not sure how 'artistic' FF culturing needs to be.
Once you have a general recipe the external variables will be room temps, room humidity , and air flow into the cultures. Nothing should change all that much pertaining to a formula.
If the slop is too sloppy ( but has been fine in the past) there needs to be more ambient heat, or less humidity or more air flow into the cultures to make them drier. Reverse if too dry.
I only use coffee filters. I hate the silly mess excelsior makes.
Now , I hate measuring out stuff too, and almost never do when I cook either, but if you can't eyeball the right amounts (generally water, measure the other ingredients) it may be worth investing in measuring devises. At least until eyeballing has taken hold.

This kind of reminds me of the 'how do I raise my humidity ' questions. Too much or too little is adjusted by a very few and very known variables.

[frogfreak]

This is exactly why I put mine in a temperature and humidity controlled room. Can be big or as small as a closet. I was tired of the temp and RH swings from month to month, especially in spring and fall. Set a humidifier and heater up in a small room in a cool basement and you eliminate all the guesswork. Perfect cultures year round.

[Philsuma]

spring, summer, winter....all affect your cultures/media and hatches....all in the same house.

[frogfreak]

spring, summer, winter....all affect your cultures/media and hatches....all in the same house.

Not in a controlled environment.