Dendrobates tinctorius "Robertus"

[joneill809]

Thanks! Yeah she has been showing interest for a few weeks. He has been ... eating springtails. She's looking all purty for him and he's just saying "holy cow did you check out the buffet here?!?" Maybe he will come around soon.

[joneill809]

Added a cocohut...fingers crossed:
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[Philsuma]

Petri dish under the hut?

[joneill809]

Petri dish under the hut?

Yep. Now Darth needs to quit eating springtails

[Stu&Shaz]

Jim,fascinating thread,to read through,hmm tincs and QT huh!!

I utterly get where Glenn led you,I utterly know why . I think that move saved your frogs kiddo.Glenn too long mate,but great call,seriously great call 8) 8)

I am coming to the conclusion I could qt anything mate, but a tinc,wow that's hard. I don't personally think that so much size of QT tub is an issue, or even water,it's they have to be back in a natural surrounding. If that QT tub doesn't represent that to to them,then in my eyes one will struggle,no meds not the best(which you have access to) of vets will get them past their need to be "at home". Jim

This is a strange post for a guy like me to make,whom thinks QT is a good thing,whom thinks vets are a GREAT thing,especially good ones!! But I watch hard bro,I've seen exactly the same,with this species.

When I bought my pr of WC Atachis after 4 hours of arguing with myself on that purchase I might add.(ya know WC OMG WC OMG) , I walked from the venue past a great mate and lovely guy whom mentors me on rani. He looked up and said,"long period of QT for them then Stu",I guess I lowered my head shameful like,but told him the truth,"no buddy straight to a viv,if it goes wrong I'll have to tare it down",But my gut and watching other tincs,I had brought here gave me no choice. It's a hard choice mate,when we have good teachers whom make a fantastic case for QT,I still recommend this buddy,I still feel it is right,but and it is a bloody big BUT,tincs have to be happy,if not in my humble eye,one will loose them.

I'm no expert mate,i just looks at froggies,they teach me stuff . I would never put another guy of keeping a tinc,damn I adore them; ha ha i'm just stopped from playing with smuf's and atachis tiny things,i'm blessed they are part of my life. But in my eyes this a a tricky frog,it's not a scared frog it doesn't have a massive escape distance,hell they actually seem to like that guy with the big nose,nah me not Glenn :lol: But they need a happy place to call home,or they will burn them selves into the ground try to get to that place climbing the walls. I have only one thing I can offer that might calm them a bit,and that is BIG leaved plants in that QT sitting up a bit overhead. As far as food,a shed load of aphids seems to put weight back on them quicker than anything.

Caviat,these are not the ravings of an experienced frogger,not a guy whom keeps lots of this species,just a few!! and reared a few ( ok a few more than a few now)they are observations possibly hard won,but just that. Funnily enough I bet the guy that steered you through this would say almost the same,only he keeps a few more. Tell me i'm wrong Glenn

One has to make this frog feel at home,I have another gut hunch which relates to this. This frog is finely balanced feeder wise,almost a bit like a panda,it has to eat a certain amount each and everyday, a consistent supply, maybe I'm over stating to say almost always on the verge of starvation Glenn's phrase a grazer works for me,but it's the best way to articulate for me,that balance. If that gets messed with by stress,one won't win

Jim just the best of luck,I've been adoring this morph quietly for a while now. Watching someone go through it is wonderful,god I hope you win kiddo,stunning ,just stunning frogs!!!!!

Actually for me it's more than that it's a bloody privilege to watch you and the crazy canuck sorting this
Happy days


bring it on

Stu

[joneill809]

Hey Stu! I'm a bit more paranoid now QTing adult tincs :lol:. I went through QT just fine with a bunch of juvies but these were a different beast! I do appreciate all the advice I got along the way - it was important to get that support as I was freaking out about her. I was happy to share in the process, warts and all. Hopefully it helps others.

I hear you on keeping a close eye on tincs in QT - it's amazing how fast they can crash. I agree with your advice on using a better planted QT enclosure for them. It's going to be a while before I have more inbound animals though :lol: I struggled with the WC decision too. I still have not seen any F1 Robertus up for sale over here yet, so I figured I put some effort into them and see what i could do.

Yep - took a few months of constant daily feedings to get her back in shape. These two went through a constant stream of melanogaster and hydei every day, all summer, then I added bean beetles and that put them over the top. Now they are the boldest frogs I own. Awesome display animals. The male needs to go on a diet though - he's been grazing on the springtails continuously for months now....



It's been a while and some updates are in order! After several months, these Robertus have grown on me and I decided I wanted to focus more on them and Lorenzos. I picked up three more Robertus and two more Lorenzo adults in September (more on the Lorenzo in a different thread).

So here is the original female (she is freakin huge now and on a regular feeding schedule of 4 to 5 feedings per week now - and this is before she ate):
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The original male - started calling THE DAY the three additional Robertus arrived...I think he knew the pressure was on with more males showing up:
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The new one eyed male (got him thrown in with the purchase of my other pair) - he's a pretty badass frog. Big and bold - he's had the bum eye since he arrived in the US, and Dr. Frye agreed it looked like trauma and there was likely no additional treatment required - you can see the eye in the second photo:
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The third and smallest male - looks like he's recovering from some nose damage as well:
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The second female - another big frog. Less yellow than the other Robertus - hopefully I can get some offspring from both females to see how variable they are:
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[Stu&Shaz]

Jim,mate, they are all stunning ,I can only wish you luck that all goes well and your dreams of breeding get realised. Oh one last comment buddy,I think the level of commitment towards them is inspiring,good for you on getting more. Breeders with more than one tank of a particular morph maybe as safe a bet as any to keep a frog in our hobby.Haha I'm watching the foundation of the Jimrobertus line .

Thanks for the new pics as well Jim it was lovely to site here late last night and go through this thread,I'll keep an eye out for progress reports and updates!! Thanks for also sharing the downs as well Jim posts like this are where we really learn

take care and again just the best luck

Stu

[frogfreak]

Hiya, Jim!

Any updates on the Robertus?

[joneill809]

Hey Glenn! I have been busy with work so I have a backlog of photos and videos to get through

So I have 5 fat and healthy Robertus....and no eggs! I have seen a good deal of interest from the two females, but the males seem a bit standoffish. I don't know what's up with these three males :lol:. I have a fresh batch of leaf litter on order as these guys seem less interested in the petri dishes and coco huts as they do in really awkward cracks in the very back of the viv. I can't get a good shot of it, but there's this one cork bark crevice that the trio smashes themselves into and it looks really, really uncomfortable. Meanwhile there's a 1" layer of really nice magnolia leaves right below them and two roomy coco huts...no dice. At least the Lorenzos are moving along nicely. Alright here are some sample shots from this week!
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[ecichlid]

Nice frogs! The rainy season in SA starts in January. :-)

[Stu&Shaz]

^^^ ha yup he's right. So the breeding will come mate,just warming up now.

Damn Jim I've always thought you yanks to be crazy,but never thought I read of dart froggy bodybuilding,should have known better.

Ahh mate so pleased for you and despite the micky taking they do look in seriously fine fettle,a total credit to you Jim,well done mate!! Thanks for the update pics too 8)

best

Stu

[frogfreak]

They look fantastic, Jim. Are they in separate vivs? 1.1 and 2.1? I think last time we spoke you said that was the plan.

I have some Matecho I've been trying to get going for 2 years. No dice so far...Same thing, females court and males ignore...

[joneill809]

Nice frogs! The rainy season in SA starts in January. :-)

^^^ ha yup he's right. So the breeding will come mate,just warming up now.

Yeah that's what I am hoping. Kurt's pair (same import) has three clutches so far I think. He's using leaf litter not petri dishes, so I'm getting some nice fresh magnolia leaves in this week to hopefully give them a better deposition site. I've stepped up the misting and added a second coco hut to each viv...fingers crossed.

Damn Jim I've always thought you yanks to be crazy,but never thought I read of dart froggy bodybuilding,should have known better.

Haha yeah I thought that was funny. I put lots of ledges in my vivs and feed them all around which forces them to hunt a bit. Muscles them up - makes you wonder what's in those supplements (FGH? )

Ahh mate so pleased for you and despite the micky taking they do look in seriously fine fettle,a total credit to you Jim,well done mate!! Thanks for the update pics too 8)

Thanks Stu! These Robertus have been fun. Big and bold - quite a pleasure to keep and [hopefully] breed.

They look fantastic, Jim. Are they in separate vivs? 1.1 and 2.1? I think last time we spoke you said that was the plan.

Yeah, a 1.1 and a 2.1. If I had found a larger stock viv I would have tried a 3.2, but for now I left the groups as I purchased them. I will also know which female is producing that way, and I can get some unrelated F1's for folks as well which would be a good deal for the locale if all works out.

I have some Matecho I've been trying to get going for 2 years. No dice so far...Same thing, females court and males ignore...

Good to know! It's frustrating, but it will be rewarding when [if] I ever get a clutch :lol:. I have placed their vivs near my True Sips and Lorenzos, all of which are calling and depositing right now, so I'm hoping that will get them started. It was pretty cool about two weeks ago when a big storm blew through with a nice pressure drop - lots of low buzzing from the sips and lorenzos...silence from these lazy Robertus males though

[joneill809]

I reworked the substrate in their vivs today and added a lot more leaf litter. I removed the petri dishes and arranged the huts directly on the litter. Here's a series of shots of the original pair's viv:
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The second group's (2.1) viv:
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Hopefully they like the new deposition sites. And thanks to Kurt for letting me pick his brain about his Robertus setup that is producing tads...

[Dendrokurt]

Hey bud, give us an update! How are your Robertus treating you? Wow I love that first Viv you posted pictures of, that friendship pilea is gorgeous. Makes me want to set up my next Viv just like yours.
A little update from me, I'm now up to 45 robertus tads. I collected one large clutch of ten eggs about a month back, sadly one of the eggs went bad right before it hatched. Then 2 clutches after that I had a clutch fungus up on me leaving only one viable tad from that batch. My first clutch from Halloween are getting BIG but they still haven't developed their back legs. I'm itching to see what color variation and patterns they morph in to!!
I hope your frogs are doing well. Keep us posted bud
-Kurt


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[joneill809]

Hey Kurt! Pics, pics! I'm so glad you have yours going. Mine are quiet .... literally. We had a really nice set of thunderstorms blow through a while back when we exchanged email and all three of my males started calling. I didn't get anything out of the initial round of calling - I like the friendship pilea a lot, but it's continued to grow and provide lots of cover for them and they seem to be selecting spots way in the back corners of the vivs, avoiding the coconuts and petri dishes. I never saw any clutches, but I suspect they placed a few in the areas I simply cannot get to. I was even tempted to buy one of those dentist mirrors to see if I could see what they were up to :lol:. It got "cold" here (by Texas standards) and the ambient humidity has dropped down into the 30's so the tank humidities have come down as well. So it's a bit dry and I have not had any pressure drops, and they quit calling.

I'm torn on how to move forward. None of them seem to show interest in the coco-huts so I think I will pull them to recover the floor space / hunting area. They seem to gather in the back corners of the viv where dishes and huts won't fit, so I may just rely on the magnolia leaves I have layered back there. The ponds in their respective vivs are full, so I have a good deposition area. I may just have to wait for the spring storms and see what they can do on their own. Otherwise they are beautiful to look at, and they do a good job keeping my bean beetle population under control

The original pair is looking good - not much has changed there. The second group (2.1) is settling in. Check the second female out (dinky male on the left):
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Here's the one eyed male - he's much bigger that the other male:
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This is the female checking out a new dish I put in one of their favorite locations about 3 inches from the top of the viv (yes, these guys love climbing...all 5 of them are all over their respective vivs):
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[Philsuma]

Jim,

In order to spur breeding, there are only two things that I can think of...well, three actually:

1. Group / pair social dynamics. You have a high probability of 'non function' due to the pairings not 'accepting' each other. Just like people, sometimes frogs will NEVER get along (breed).

2. Vivarium construction / placement. From the looks of it, the viv is large and well planted and designed. Is it by a window / draft ? Are some odd temperatures at work? Is it too dry? Do you have a lot of human traffic near it - children futzing with it. I have heard of some breeders of large obligates actually covering up portions of their vivs or hiding them in closets.

3. Supplements.

I would definately switch the groupings / pairings. I would then take a critical look at the viv.

Since they are climbing more than most adult tincs, maybe you could place the cocohuts up high or get some large grey PVC tubes and place them up high for egg deposition sites.

When in doubt - feed heavy / spray heavy.

[Dendrokurt]

Thanks for the update man. Once you get some froglets maybe we can trade some F1s at the attempt of keeping their gene pool big


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[Dendrokurt]

Oh and mine climb a lot too. I have a cork tube in their Viv and they sit at the very top near the top of their Viv


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[joneill809]

Jim,

In order to spur breeding, there are only two things that I can think of...well, three actually:

1. Group / pair social dynamics. You have a high probability of 'non function' due to the pairings not 'accepting' each other. Just like people, sometimes frogs will NEVER get along (breed).

2. Vivarium construction / placement. From the looks of it, the viv is large and well planted and designed. Is it by a window / draft ? Are some odd temperatures at work? Is it too dry? Do you have a lot of human traffic near it - children futzing with it. I have heard of some breeders of large obligates actually covering up portions of their vivs or hiding them in closets.

3. Supplements.

I would definately switch the groupings / pairings. I would then take a critical look at the viv.

Since they are climbing more than most adult tincs, maybe you could place the cocohuts up high or get some large grey PVC tubes and place them up high for egg deposition sites.

When in doubt - feed heavy / spray heavy.

Thanks Phil! Yes, I'm contemplating some moves. Both vivs are lined up on a counter side by side with other vivs containing actively breeding groups of True Sips (2.1), Lorenzo (1.2) and Lorenzo (2.1). They are all on the same misting system, same lighting schedule, and exposed to the same level of human interaction, mostly us reading at night across the room or me performing maintenance. I think I have the climate situated for tincs producing, but maybe it's related to them being WC - they did go nuts when we had a nice pressure drop, but they are definitely not as consistent as my other tincs. They are on a rotation of Dendrocare, Repashy Ca+, and Repashy Vit A - same as everybody else.

Honestly I think they deposit in the back cracks of the viv behind some cork rounds where I simply cannot see. I tried to make a nice densely planted environment with lots of hides, and it worked They tend to retreat into the dark reaches of the viv whenever they are calling, so I'm hoping I'll just find some tadpoles in the pool out front some day...

Thanks for the update man. Once you get some froglets maybe we can trade some F1s at the attempt of keeping their gene pool big

Sure thing Kurt! I've been trying to keep the females separate so I can produce two known lineages, but I'm starting to rethink their housing. It's likely we'll be talking later this year! (I'm staying positive)

Oh and mine climb a lot too. I have a cork tube in their Viv and they sit at the very top near the top of their Viv

It always makes me laugh seeing those females climb. The second female I have actually scaled the glass to get to her perch at the top of the viv. It was a little painful to watch, but it showed her determination. It's interesting to me how they roost and prefer the upper ledges in their viv.