03-31-2012, 09:15 PM
BluePumilio Wrote:In my experience, people who flip frogs usually work with WC animals,...
Tons of CB flipping. Think tinc and auratus, vents, any fecund dart ...
03-31-2012, 09:15 PM
03-31-2012, 09:17 PM
flipping is def more CB...and it's WORSE that way....think hybrids and weak frogs being passed on to others.
09-09-2012, 07:09 PM
It is always a double edged sword in animal hobbies.
09-09-2012, 08:51 PM
No...there is nothing inherently wrong with re-selling frogs.
But the word "Flipper" is a derisive term that we NEED to have in the hobby as it fits a demographic of people that we should not patronize. We should shun them, as flippers do much more harm than good.
Re-seller (neutral 'business' term)
1. Correctly tells prospective frog buyers that the frogs they are looking to buy were bred/raised/came from - ________ and NOT himself. Does not lie, hide or pretend to 'not know".
2. Goes to EXTRA lengths to quarantine and in applicable cases, medicate. Cleans and sterilizes temp / q-tine containers.
3. Does not house multiple frogs per temp or q-tine container.
4. In other words, the re-seller PROVIDES some betterment for the animals. They will not sell weak or sick animals.
'Frog Flipper" ( Negative 'business' term)
1. Often places orders only when given money- sometimes this accounts for the delay when you pay and then finally get your frogs.
2. Places wholesale orders from an importer and does NOTHING more than mark them up and git em' out.
3. Houses them in groups and doesn't care to quarantine or otherwise see to their well being.
4. The Flipper usually doesn't care about anything other than getting fat stacks - $$$
Animal Importer - not a re-seller or a flipper. Importers are importers. Whole different topic discussed elsewhere in this forum.
But the word "Flipper" is a derisive term that we NEED to have in the hobby as it fits a demographic of people that we should not patronize. We should shun them, as flippers do much more harm than good.
Re-seller (neutral 'business' term)
1. Correctly tells prospective frog buyers that the frogs they are looking to buy were bred/raised/came from - ________ and NOT himself. Does not lie, hide or pretend to 'not know".
2. Goes to EXTRA lengths to quarantine and in applicable cases, medicate. Cleans and sterilizes temp / q-tine containers.
3. Does not house multiple frogs per temp or q-tine container.
4. In other words, the re-seller PROVIDES some betterment for the animals. They will not sell weak or sick animals.
'Frog Flipper" ( Negative 'business' term)
1. Often places orders only when given money- sometimes this accounts for the delay when you pay and then finally get your frogs.
2. Places wholesale orders from an importer and does NOTHING more than mark them up and git em' out.
3. Houses them in groups and doesn't care to quarantine or otherwise see to their well being.
4. The Flipper usually doesn't care about anything other than getting fat stacks - $$$
Animal Importer - not a re-seller or a flipper. Importers are importers. Whole different topic discussed elsewhere in this forum.
09-09-2012, 09:56 PM
Philsuma Wrote:...
But the word "Flipper" is a derisive term that we NEED to have in the hobby as it fits a demographic of people that we should not patronize. We should shun them, as flippers do much more harm than good.
...
What are your thoughts Phil on a business who thinks it's either funny or wise to decide on "Frog flipper" as his screen name?
My thoughts are that is shows an absolute nose thumbing at what we who care about the hobby feel about flippers. Why purposely choose your own name as something most all of us look down upon and warn people against?
To choose not to go by your real name and to purposely choose one of the most deragotory terms in our HOBBY says much about where a business is coming from, and it speaks volumes to the lack of respect being spent on our hobby.
BTW Phil, since my banning-lifting I am no longer getting reply notifications nor PM email notifications. Not sure why not, as I've not changed any of my setting that I've had for eight years now.
09-09-2012, 10:15 PM
Yeah....calling yourself a 'Frog Flipper' even tongue in cheek, is not appreciated. I talked with Ray Jr. about it on the phone and he agreed it was done on a lark, without much thought. He agreed that it was best to change it.
That's ALL I ask for here Rich....that WE all improve, move forward, better the animals and advance the hobby. Changing that screen name and the resultant 25 minute talk was VERY good in my book. I only hope you and Ray have an equally positive chat and we all move forward.
btw....I just checked all your preferences - PM's and emails. They look 'correct' - same as mine, in fact. I'll send you a test PM now.
That's ALL I ask for here Rich....that WE all improve, move forward, better the animals and advance the hobby. Changing that screen name and the resultant 25 minute talk was VERY good in my book. I only hope you and Ray have an equally positive chat and we all move forward.
btw....I just checked all your preferences - PM's and emails. They look 'correct' - same as mine, in fact. I'll send you a test PM now.
09-09-2012, 10:35 PM
No good on notifications on either your pm or a reply to one of my thread posts.
I'll let everyone know how the call goes. It has been my experience that adults out of their teens rarely, if ever turn over totally new leaves...especially when it comes to $$ and bad senses of humor.
I'll let everyone know how the call goes. It has been my experience that adults out of their teens rarely, if ever turn over totally new leaves...especially when it comes to $$ and bad senses of humor.
09-09-2012, 10:52 PM
You know what Rich forget the phone call. You just can't help but being a total ass. I have nothing to say to you. I dont know you and do not care too. Hope I said that right , but I know you get the point. Sorry Phil.
09-09-2012, 11:21 PM
Not surprised Jr.
Just remember that when I correct the mistakes that I expect you to continue to post, or bring it up when you find something funny which the rest of us find in bad , bad taste.
And, no, it's not "I don't care too know (or no [sic]) you ", it's , I do not care to know you.
Your does not mean you are, and there does not mean they are, since YOU brought it up.
Just remember that when I correct the mistakes that I expect you to continue to post, or bring it up when you find something funny which the rest of us find in bad , bad taste.
And, no, it's not "I don't care too know (or no [sic]) you ", it's , I do not care to know you.
Your does not mean you are, and there does not mean they are, since YOU brought it up.
09-10-2012, 03:47 AM
Everyone be sure and say hello to our newest flipper!!!
09-10-2012, 12:36 PM
You won't find a definition of "frog flipper" in any dictionary.
But my own personal definition of a frog flipper is someone who gets frogs , no matter how , where, or from what country, then sells them with the sole intention of making a profit. They are not hobbyists but rather business people looking to make a profit off the hobby.
They often , but not always, have no clue about what they sell and do not care, as long as they make a profit from simply flipping the frogs.
If the flipper happens to be the tenth person to own the frogs , or the guy who signs for them fresh off the boat it matters not.
If they are only in it to make a profit as soon as they can , have no intention of ever creating breeding projects, know little about the frogs and/or do not care one bit who they sell the frogs to as long as their payment is up front and in full, and did not themselves breed and produce the frogs... then they are a flipper.
Flippers usually do not guarantee live arrival and certainly do not follow up long term to check on the health and well being of the frogs they sold to a kid who bought them as an impulse buy.
The main thread holding my definition of a flipper together being the need to get any darts in possession to sell them as quickly as possible (and if a week or two of non-'quarantine' happens to be part of the mix it's because it's good for business) to anybody possible, via any means possible (Kingsnake, DB, Shows, DD, makes no difference )
to make as much profit as possible .
Profit is the driving force. Get the frogs in and out as soon as possible and make as much money off others as possible. Repeat . That's a flipper. It has nothing to do with the point in the chain at which you happen to acquire the frogs. Some importers are absolutely flipper, others (minority) not at all. Some importers like MP care about the hobby.
Last, most flippers do not post helpful tips on hobby forums. If they do post anything but "FOR SALE!!!! it is to promote business and is about the bottom line.
But my own personal definition of a frog flipper is someone who gets frogs , no matter how , where, or from what country, then sells them with the sole intention of making a profit. They are not hobbyists but rather business people looking to make a profit off the hobby.
They often , but not always, have no clue about what they sell and do not care, as long as they make a profit from simply flipping the frogs.
If the flipper happens to be the tenth person to own the frogs , or the guy who signs for them fresh off the boat it matters not.
If they are only in it to make a profit as soon as they can , have no intention of ever creating breeding projects, know little about the frogs and/or do not care one bit who they sell the frogs to as long as their payment is up front and in full, and did not themselves breed and produce the frogs... then they are a flipper.
Flippers usually do not guarantee live arrival and certainly do not follow up long term to check on the health and well being of the frogs they sold to a kid who bought them as an impulse buy.
The main thread holding my definition of a flipper together being the need to get any darts in possession to sell them as quickly as possible (and if a week or two of non-'quarantine' happens to be part of the mix it's because it's good for business) to anybody possible, via any means possible (Kingsnake, DB, Shows, DD, makes no difference )
to make as much profit as possible .
Profit is the driving force. Get the frogs in and out as soon as possible and make as much money off others as possible. Repeat . That's a flipper. It has nothing to do with the point in the chain at which you happen to acquire the frogs. Some importers are absolutely flipper, others (minority) not at all. Some importers like MP care about the hobby.
Last, most flippers do not post helpful tips on hobby forums. If they do post anything but "FOR SALE!!!! it is to promote business and is about the bottom line.
10-01-2012, 02:47 PM
Here's the most complete Frog Flipper thread on the 'net , IMO......direct them all here, for questions, concerns.
10-01-2012, 04:19 PM
If you patronize a flipper you're just as big a part of the problem as the flipper themselves. It's a shame some people just don't get it.
10-01-2012, 05:11 PM
Rusty_Shackleford Wrote:If you patronize a flipper you're just as big a part of the problem as the flipper themselves. It's a shame some people just don't get it.
I think that most of those "some who don't get it" do get it... I think it's greed and lack of integrity/self control that allows them to buy from these flippers. That "I've gotta have it now, don't care how" attitude... AKA, the Violet Beauregards of the hobby...
01-15-2013, 08:30 PM
Philsuma Wrote:Resellers should:
1. Accurately represent the animal, i.e it's acquired stock and NOT produced by them.
2. Quarantine and ensure that the animal is feeding and healthy - @ 40 days is being thrown out there and I can't disagree with that amount of time.
3. Provide stellar customer service and give back to the community and hobby. WE ALL know strip-mining and take, take, take $$$ when we see it.
No one is faulting anyone who wants to earn. Profit is good and helps drive, move the hobby forward and provide more and better care.
"Flipper" is a derisive hobby term that only gets applied to the bottom feeders - the 20% or so...the worst. It's a relatively new term but I'm hoping it catches on and provides a decent amount of shame for those who are truly worthy of it's label.
Some Re-sellers can be ok.They are re-selling the animals.
Some Jobbers can be ok and we can call them Jobbers.
Some Importers can be ok and we can refer to them as importers.
Some of those are NOT ok...and we call them....'Flippers'.
01-15-2013, 09:03 PM
If a person buys say 20 tincs wholesale raises them to a sexable age and sells them as pairs (say you get 8 pairs from 20). most likely quadrupling what they paid wholesale, is that reselling,flipping?
To me jobbers are the worst because they don't even possess the animals they are selling. They don't even know the quailty of animal you're getting
To me jobbers are the worst because they don't even possess the animals they are selling. They don't even know the quailty of animal you're getting
01-16-2013, 03:23 PM
SnakePaparazzi Wrote:I think that most of those "some who don't get it" do get it... I think it's greed and lack of integrity/self control that allows them to buy from these flippers. That "I've gotta have it now, don't care how" attitude... AKA, the Violet Beauregards of the hobby...
Veruca Salt. She was a bad egg.
01-16-2013, 06:22 PM
Chris Miller Wrote:SnakePaparazzi Wrote:I think that most of those "some who don't get it" do get it... I think it's greed and lack of integrity/self control that allows them to buy from these flippers. That "I've gotta have it now, don't care how" attitude... AKA, the Violet Beauregards of the hobby...
Veruca Salt. She was a bad egg.
A little home-town promo there Chris ? Is that band any good ?
01-16-2013, 06:29 PM
jeffr Wrote:If a person buys say 20 tincs wholesale raises them to a sexable age and sells them as pairs (say you get 8 pairs from 20). most likely quadrupling what they paid wholesale, is that reselling,flipping?
To me jobbers are the worst because they don't even possess the animals they are selling. They don't even know the quality of animal you're getting
Jeff,
The deciding factor for 'Flipping' is DISHONESTY. Jobbers are not the greatest, but at least they have a business reputation and try hard not to 'F up and kill animals, which is all bad for business. Mark Lucas is a text book jobber / re-seller combo. His rep is actually pretty good and he goes to great lengths to do things right all the way around. That earns him an 'ok' in my book.
Now take a look at that Goof from Michigan with the escudos. Lied the whole way around. FLIPPER.
If you are straight up and tell people 100% EXACTLY what you are doing/ selling and for what reasons and go to great lengths to safeguard the animals and prevent death and disease. AND then deal fairly, honestly and correctly with peoples time, money and orders.
THEN....you are not a 'Flipper"
"Flipper" = Shitbird...and is reserved for the bottom of the barrel.
01-16-2013, 07:31 PM
And the bottom of that particular barrel seems to be getting darker and deeper lately Phil.