Newb Questions...

[Swanwillow]

I'm making my rounds on different places, saying hello.

I'm up in Northern MN, and thinking bout getting frogs in the next oh, 6 months or so (I have other big purchases first)

I am slowly setting up a orchidarium/vivarium. Figuring out the orchids first (all of the species I have selected are 70-90% humidity, low light, easy to grow, and temp ranges from a low of 60 to a high of 80) and what the tank temps will range.

Which is hard, cause of course planning and doing are two completely different things! I am PLANNING on keeping it in the mid 70's. temp wise, PLANNING on waterfall features, bromeliads, all sorts of fun stuff! Maybe even a misting system

The tank is a 30-35 (the measurements calculate to 32. ssome odd US gallons) hex. its 28 inches tall.

So, that said, I'm looking, reading, learning. I have found one species that I thought would be nice, but have also been told it may not be as nice as I thought (E. tricolor or its relatives)

what I'd be looking for in a frog: outgoing, keepable in a 4-some, would love to climb and utilize the vertical space...

I think the tricky part is keepable in a group. I'd like to have a group for their interactions, not just a pair that the female would kill other females type setting...

anywho, hello!

[Swanwillow]

oh, so...

I AM doing research on different species, what do you guys think...

I've only seen a couplea bad notes :roll: on here./.. I am looking at different online vendors too. P. aurotaenia, D. galac.. all sorts, I've even looked at pumillios (and decided NO!)

[mack]

howdy,

first of all, who's talking smack about tricolors? mine, which i think are now anthonyi (vs. tricolor) were among my first, and still among my favorites.

the next thing is that 5 may be a better number than 4. somehow it may spread aggression better. usually 5 or 6 frogs are reccommended for small groups. i'm sure the universe will not explode if you put 4 frogs in a tank, but then again how good of an excuse do you need to buy one more frog? :wink:

check out little frog farms for some orchids which are tried and tested in frog tanks. i love Lanium microphyllum for a frog tank orchid. it's not too showy, but grows like a weed on the back wall of tanks. andy's orchids is also great if you haven't seen the site already.

good luck, and keep us posted.

[Swanwillow]

I comprised my list off of andys searched for low light, humid, daily waterings, and mini, these three came up

Haraella odorata
Masdevallia floribunda
and M. rolfiana.

all great terrarium orchids, I was doing research on orchidariums, and found out bout dart frogs that way, bout 2 weeks ago.

I LOVE the way the E(really long word) looks they are really pretty, seem to be the ones that I like the most and fit into my list.

The concerns voiced were the temps... if I can keep the temps at where the darts need them.

oh, and that my tank has a small footprint, VS height... if that makes sense

[mack]

i have to confess i actually killed a H. odorata in a frog tank....excuse me while i go sit in the corner and put on a dunce cap for a minute....

what are your temps?

how small is the bottom area. i can't really picture what 35-ish gallons of hex looks like, but with good tank design with multiple levels it seems like a big enough enclosure for a small group of tricolor/anthonyi. were there other epi's you were considering?

[Swanwillow]

well, I haven't gotten it set up yet its still in planning... lots of planning.

the orchids are all in the 70* range. So, I know upper 70*s are better than lower for others... I'll be setting it up this weekend, two weeks I should have the 'chids in it.

each panel of the hex is 12 inches wide. from extreme corner to corner (directly across from eachother) is 24 inches..

My idea in my head does incorporate a type of platform: a stump (hollow) to house my pumps, and for temperature control a heater for the water (its COLD out, and in the room I'll be keeping them) and a type of waterfall going off of it... +

heres a pic of the stand it goes to... the black part is the size of the tank, the ruler is 18" long. so thats the footprint



I hope that helps. Its bigger than a ten gallon footprint, probably equal to a 29 gallon, but its in a funny size. So I don't know how many I can keep in a tank like that. Thats why I was going for a more friendly species

the ones I was really looking at are the anthonyi in different color morphs: particularly salvias, but they ALL look so nice

[mack]

salvias are fine in groups. my female heavy group may interrupt each other's courting, but no problems beyond that. there is a critical point with juvies where larger youths may stress slower growing tank mates. once they are mature, i've never heard of serious problems with aggression.

i would not hesitate to put 5 or so salvias in that tank. they climb a lot. remember, too, that they like to lay on flat horizontal leaves. i use plants like episcias, tetrasperma raphidaphora, scindapsus picta, and singonium rayii.

the salvias also like cooler temps than most darts. mine like to lay when the daytime temps are upper 60's to very low 70's. this is no easy feat living in texas. they stay on the bottom shelf in the coolest part of the room, and have minimal lighting (also to avoid high temps). a 10 degree night time drop in temps is also ideal.

the last note is an IMPORTANT one! the term 'salvias' is a bit of a catch all term. it is not a definite morph....or rather it is, but many other morphs are also called 'salvias'. therefore, it is very important that you get the frogs from one person, and not mix 'salvias' from different collections as it may well turn out that they are not the same species. a mixed tank of salvias from different breeders runs the risk of making hybrids and thus destroying the blood lines.

[Swanwillow]

well, heres the tank, before making the background...

http://jschmidt657.photosite.com/Album3/

[mack]

why, that's the cutest little tadpole i've ever seen! keep us posted on the progress.