Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

[Stu&Shaz]

young azzie


the three hand reared histos






some of our red frog beach kids









take care

Stu

[Philsuma]

Stu,

Can you start a thread on your hand-reared Histos ? Detailing your experiences ? I'd love to hear about it.

Are the front legs ok on that Histo ? Almost looks SLS-y...

[Stu&Shaz]

Stu,

Can you start a thread on your hand-reared Histos ? Detailing your experiences ? I'd love to hear about it.

Are the front legs ok on that Histo ? Almost looks SLS-y...

Hey mate,buddy I don't think I can give you much more detail than I already have,it's not me being evasive I just think I've pretty much covered what I've done,it's Rob Melencom's method Phil. I've used the exact same method as him fed non obligate eggs ,my usual tad tea Alder and I guess we must factor in the wild grub ,parental nutrition is where it all starts. Rainwater untreated,all the usual things we always do. Buddy beyond that,why I have got this far is a complete mystery to me,I know many many haven't. I've done this in 3 basic stages,tried to save one where a brom leaf failed,she's doing ace,then pondered surrogacy,that worked too,so finished up here,with what you see now. There isn't any secret mate,ha apart from two guys that graft like bastards. I think I've pretty much covered it kiddo,oh by god you work on that water!!

Phil could you tell me which picture please,you might have seen something I've missed,but I see normal movement no issues at all. Every thing compares correct to the parental reared kids,we have reared from the same pair. What is important though is you have done this way longer than I,I'm still really a beginner bro,despite the time we spend the research done,and I suppose begrudgingly the achievements(meh luck),we both just see ourselves as beginners. My biggest concerns were for the last ootw,but he's /she's the most active climbing moving all over her tub from the off. I still think they might die tomorrow I guess I'm conditioning myself for a fall,but the guts say they are right,given my experience,that's all I have.

be lucky mate

Stu

[Philsuma]

Thanks Stu - much obliged for all the posting you guys do!!!

That third pic of the Histo - straight-on looks like his front feet are kinda bent and bent underneath him. Probably nothing if you see him move ok.

Interesting redhead patterns as well!

[Stu&Shaz]

Phil always welcome bro,wish it could be more,but always time.

sadly I have to report the loss of one of the hand reared histo kids. Honestly I think he might have been supressed by his sibling and keeper error is a factor,I really think I should have and could have moved quicker,but naturally we will never know,but it's important I outline what I think is the cause for the next guy. I've been really gutted about this,but that is how it is. The other two are good,look very strong,there is a long long way to go yet,more heart ache may follow,but they look strong at this time. Phil not the one you picked out has perished as a side note.

Frogging if one cares gives massive downs,as above ,but also massive highs!!

today We found our first Summersi eggs WITH EMBRYOS,naturally from the new UE kids I told you all about. I know I can breed this frog,i've kept them two years and gradually learnt how they work how to induce breeding and switch it off,but not once has my female produced eggs with embros,now here we are,massive for us this!!!

But guys I need some help,I would love to see new laid summersi eggs,but failing that I need to look at Rani eggs,i strongly suspect I need to right some when I pull shortly

I'd really appreciate some help here but it has to be soon. We are in this for the long haul,so if this first clutch doesn't pan out it isn't a big deal ,but I'd like to give them a chance,beyond that I'll get there,I know have good eggs,the rest will follow

best

Stu

[phelsumaman]

Ah Stu, so happy for you, its been a long time coming buddy. Hope they work out for you.
Oh one last thing, dibs on those first babies

[Stu&Shaz]

Ah Stu, so happy for you, its been a long time coming buddy. Hope they work out for you.
Oh one last thing, dibs on those first babies

Seen as this is all your fault :roll: :lol: ,then I think you might win this Ben,but first I have to do the do, there is along way to go yet buddy plus early clutch,from kidlets,so we'll see.

Ahh bro you should have seen the look on my face of sheer disbelief then boucing around like a bloody pair of idiots with Shaz,not good is it we should grow up and be sensible....honest. I've only chec ked them 30times in 2 bloody days :oops:

Ben some serious observation type things. I was flapping when I posted here,as the eggs were very pale ontop when just laid,I couldn't see well enough until I pulled to be sure,but it looked like some were inverted. When I removed them were all exactly the same orientation and I left well alone. Within 12 hours I could see a change in them,all pointing to fertile. By 24 I was convinced all fetile,now 100%. So that's raised the game. Second up clutch size...6 eggs...I know they are a big Rani,but I didn't expect that especially from young frogs,when I actually spotted the eggs I could still hear a male calling although i couldn't see any frogs. I still have no idea on group dynamic,just know we have at least one fetile pr,I wish I could pin it down further in time this will come. Eggs were laid about 15cm off the ground in the usual 1/2 white can in black full can orientation roughly horizontal. Ben it might be me excitement,but they embryos seem to be developing very very quickly.

I'm so thrilled bro, with time, they will settle like you have seen over the time you have been coming here,with our pair. Once that happens i'll have a much better handle on what's really going on. But for now just pure unadulterated joy and complete disbelief this has happened so damn fast. I'm trying to tell myself early clutch don't expect too much,but man I want to rear these now

we'll see

Ben,for all the kindness sincere thanks


Stu

Oh PS

Guys just in case you don't know,Ben picked these up from Germany for us and brought them here for me right to our door,he's been a good personal friend to us as well as one of my best froggy mates. We catch up now and then and when ever he comes he always leaves me something to muse on,one seriously kind guy and a huge asset to brit dartkeeping.

Beyond all that he talks funny and makes me look so old some folks think i'm his dad :o

Ha sorry bro,how could I not!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[phelsumaman]

Cheers "Dad"

[Stu&Shaz]

A very brief snapshot of what is happening here all taken today,by no means the whole picture:
Summersi eggs 5 days in:



Histrionica red head two clutches laid a few days apart



obviously a few days older



Now I've already told you JT lays and as the eggs develop she has timed everything so the guys she is feeding are about to exit the water,I thought maybe something had gone astray this time:whistling2:

WRONG:lol2:



Red frog beach eggs



close to morphing:

Atachibakka(tinc)



superblue(auratus)



leuc


Azzie



young RFB kid ha ha he's my mate cracking little guy



I got a few mins today to play snapperama hope you enjoy

best

Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

We have a second batch of summersi eggs,I'm so thrilled it's hard to articulate,we are past the one clutch from stress stage. guys I've wacked some pics in the rani section as time is short. The atachis leucs azzie and SB kids are doing great,rate of growth on the azzies really good. I'm waiting on the RFB kids to reach maturity now,nothing new to report ,but i'm starting to have them all over the shop.some in a prove out viv some in tubs some in parental viv and more coming,but no proven females to get us all underway.
Atachi tad


RFB kid


Puzzle


Azzie


and another


Ahh hell one more huh



Take care all

Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

Sorry I've not been about much guys. Our RFB breeding project is progressing slow but sure,we have had a bit of a shake up of late moving various frogs about first i'm going to show some horrible pics of our two latest kids,bless 'em





These little guys are the frogs we have just pulled from the parental viv along with the sub male. I'm pretty sure we have had some egg eating going on,ok, more than pretty sure,so I want to explore the pair dynamic as we have never actually been there yet. To say we are thrilled with these guys is a massive understatement. As the first group in the prove out viv proved to be all male. They have also been swapped with earlier pictured frogs. Massive hopes are now placed for some females in all these frogs as always tis all time. I always knew trying to get this frog to a state where I have the dynamic of more than one viv was going to be a long road. My goal is to never have to buy more and do as much as I can to keep this frog here. We have many males but few females in blighty so the female side of this equation is crucial,this is not about us but the bigger picture. Panama isn't a sustainable source,we need to make the best we can of what is here.

Some frogs huh:









Unfortunately our first summersi to hit land and passed the same night,one of the biggest "yeah we've got there" to being trashed moments in hours we have had so far,man that was hard. Properly gutted the little guy even went up to roost!! But that said first clutch and close,ain't so bad for a couple of humble mad folks. Since that time progress is real but slow,I'm getting to that stage of " Stu you just can't kill all those tads" However long it takes we will breed this frog !

We simply don't have this frog breeding here,I feel I am missing a detail,why is this frog not being spread about in blighty,oh don't doubt they get here,but the next stage is missing,anyone care to share words of enlightenment please help,if not as always head down......

bring it on

Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

Hi all happy new year.

Well after a mental run up to christmas,I means seriously stupid plus giving up me break,we have just had an astounding froggy few days.

We have at least one new RFB kid bouncing around,3 new red head kids,and out first summersi has left the water.Plus I found a new summersi tad transported,which very much points to us having two females in the breeding viv 8) . We have two little tank raised leucs bouncing around,plus a rather large tad in both leuc and mystie vivs for good meansure.

Back to summersi,the second "old male" pair seem to be getting on really well,maybe ,just maybe another female as asked for. what is amazing to me,is that she is following him out to feed and already far far bolder,than the breeding group,I can't believe she is staying put when I open the door at this stage,as we haven't had her that long. i'm completely shocked by how big this morphling summersi is and how fast and strong he is ootw

Front legs just popped :


Just before he left the water:



Something completely off topic as it's new year,a wild chinese deer living in blighty


take care all

Stu

[Frogman955]

Stu I`m curious about something.
You mentioned above about egg eating and your positive that it`s going on.
Any updates on this ?


Mike

[Stu&Shaz]

Stu I`m curious about something.
You mentioned above about egg eating and your positive that it`s going on.
Any updates on this ?


Mike

To elucidate (for others Mike) we are talking a well grown on young female(pum), (I believe), in this case eating eggs of an obviously breeding female.

Pulled her Mike,I cannot confirm she ate eggs,I can confirm that was my hunch. I can also confirm in this relatively short time since we talked ,a few months?I have more tads in the water than ever previous in this 1;2,previously 1;3 group of frogs.

All the pointers say egg eating Mike,observations of her in a can in which I watched the "pair mate" lead me here. She was pulled and things have got better. I can't be 100%,mate,that would be a female with jelly in her mouth,a bit like I am dammed if I know the sex of a frog until it calls or lays eggs. I'm never completely sure Mike,that will always be my way,I know damn well I don't know it all,I have much to learn. I will always be wary of stating complete facts as such,until I have 100% confirmation of what I have seen,I haven't got that 100%,by the same token:

I'm sure as hell things are better now, than they were......which says enough huh?

best

Stu

[Frogman955]

Thanks Stu.
The reason I`m asking is that I`m wondering if it`s going on with my Bastis.
After having a chat with Ade on the phone I decided I was going to pull 2 of the females out as I should by rights have lots of froglets from a group of 4.
Anyway I opened the door to chase them down and there in front of me was a new froglet, so I left them alone, for now.


Mike

[Stu&Shaz]

Mike it's so very difficult to know exactly what is going on in pum vivs, how many times does some one report a new froglet,out of the blue,it happens to all of us. With that and once we know breeding is taking place,we have no idea (in many cases) how many tads make it to water of how many get reared until they are in front of us. What I'm trying to get over is that I spotted the wrong female on a clutch of eggs and through pure luck I already knew whom had bred. I'm also pretty sure I knew egg number laid,but hell knows now. So these almost chance observations plus ,as you say, where are the froglets,lead me to ponder this with you.

Mike simply put,you have all the bases covered,so then it's just working backwards,trying to rule out why things are not quite as they could be. I think egg eating is where I might look first,regardless of the new guy. I'm not saying pull anything,but I'd be watching the can's like a hawk for sure,for clues.

Mike the right frogs it don't matter what sex ratio and you'll be fine,the wrong ones and the boys will nail each other and females egg eat and maybe worse. Trouble is no way of knowing whom will work and whom won't. The bastis,well a 1:3 went to a 1;2 and suddenly all seems well but why,no fighting seemingly no stress,just an observation of the eggs.

good luck

Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

Jees,summersi !!!

Guys I am struggling with this one,it's insane, we have gone from some results with all other frogs I could only dream about to just struggling with the summersi tads. As the months go buy fertility and hatchability is all I could hope for. The tads grow quite well some slightly better than others,but many perish late on...almost all in fact. Now obviously the parents are young frogs,first season and I would expect the froglet I'll show in a mo is from around clutch 7or 8,so this might just all right it's self,but it's so sad. I so want this frog here and many others want to keep,but for some reason as of yet I can't fathom they don't fare so great,I'm possibly the only one breeding in blighty,might be others,but I know of no other success as of yet.

I'm trialing out some repashy products,see if I can make a difference this way and as the spring comes the wild grub will feature.

But it's nuts because when I do get a froglet through morphout they really seem strong as an ox..granted only two so far which is pitiful. Here's the first,must be a month or so now,doing absolutely fab



and the second a few days ootw



I must have something just off for this particular species if this is not a "young frogs" issue,it's so weird that these offspring that make it are so damn strong,hey ho keep pushing.

Sorry about all the quality of pics guys.
This little corker is one of three scrambling around in the parental viv,possibly some remember we have pulled all red heads to date,I have been and am still slightly concerned about my male being aggressive,and we are both really watching this tank at this time....REALLY WATCHING!! things are not too bad and they are all growing like weeds morphout was at christmas,they were my pressies :lol:



I'll try and get something better of these,but I'm not going to bother the summersi much at this stage.

Here's an awful pic of Drake..RH dad main thing here is colour a slow but sure increase of the red. Maybe this can be attributed to the bugburger we use laced with 5% superpig,there has certainly been a change in both adults



take care all

Stu

[Frogman955]

Hi Stu
Having not seen your vivs in the flesh I don`t know where your frogs deposit eggs.
But mine are all on plants as I only have film cannisters in 2 vivs and only one gets used, I think, because I saw them both in it yesterday.
Maybe I should put a couple of cannisters in to see if they use them and this of course would allow me to keep a closer watch and maybe then I`d see if in fact egg eating is going on.
Tine to get watching again.
Sorry about the Summersi, I don`t have any answers for you.


Mike

[Stu&Shaz]

Mike sorry mate,although we might have talked on this elsewhere, mainly we get eggs in film cans,but like you occassionally on brom leaves,or elsewhere. but they really seem to like the security of the can ,so we provide for them.


Ranitomey summersi,a frog so far we have struggled with,I actually don't know of one single breeder here but know they have come in and folks have struggled both with keeping the adults going and nothing being successfully bred. I have to say we are part of this too,unfortunately our new female died a bit back,she was great and pretty darn bold looked good but found dead.
I have struggled to rear the tadpoles having by far the worst mortality we have ever seen. My personal thought has been maybe the adults are just young and this might change one day. I contacted the awesome Peppers and got the usual wonderful reply,which confirmed my thoughts Mark struggled at first too . I did try to slow the onset of breeding but these guys given a low seem to lay. We have kept these now for 3 years,that's how it works here at least. I'm actually trying to stop them as I write this and am nearly there,we had a low hit this weekend,frogs are bone dry,ok you know what I mean,but they laid exactly on cue. We are edging closer methinks slow but sure,I have a couple of kids doing fantastic,but I want it right not this,mind a month will tell me if we have right...not this. We have just had a whole 4 clutch pop fronts within 48 hours,I have to be close now.

So some pics to show summersi tad growth different individuals all taken same day:



























[URL=http://s739.photobucket.com/user/soundstounite/media/IMG_1543_zpsgpvccjum.jpg.html][URL]


wish us luck guys I want this one now,these stunning frogs need spreading about here!!

seeya

Stu

[joneill809]

Nicely done Stu! Beautiful frogs! I'm always impressed with the variety of your collection and your attention to detail to each species / morph.