Stu & Shaz's Dart Frog Room

[Stu&Shaz]

I'm going to go through this last couple of weeks again,regarding tadpols,as i think, although its a bit of a repeat that some folks might see this and not elsewhere,and might just help them,this ain't easy becuase i rate this as a big mistake on my part,making a bad call,all be it with good intentions.
Our darts get rainwater,its filtered,but thats it,our tadpoles get the same,we are experimenting with the gizmo as i call it,which there are pics here,and also rear some more conventionally in glasses. All of the newly hatched tads,get put into glasses,where we can watch them like hawks,starting with about half an inch or so of water,and a brew of oak tea,and abit of oak leaf,we don't feed for a while not much in the first week at all,later in the week,i pop in a bit of elodea covered in algae.
once we have a tadpole past week one,well its still here. We occassionally loose the odd tad in the first few days,not many at all considering this is our first season and the auratus are so young.We loose them before feeding has commenced to a mouth fungus,i think this is likely to be airbourne from speaking to folks,it might well be in our water, who knows.I wondered wherther it might be down to our oakleaves being old,the new supply will drop soon,so i ommitted the tea/leaf from our tads,with in say 48hrs the fungus hit real hard,all guys that got it died i think,we noticed something really wrong early one evening,read for a while and someome suggested aldercone might help,I'd stashed some, within an hour we had a strong teabrewed and started treatment,a few drops then a bit more so not to shock the little chaps. long and the short of it no more fungus developed,oh i forgot this was our best strongest hatch.....oh well,i've lynched myself,beaten myself up ,and am now phyisophical i guess. Within a couple of days the wheels started again and new little guys started to grace us with their presence,we are using the alder,i'm lead to believe its stronger than almond and oak,all good so far no wretched fungus ,its still very early yet,but it might help someone,whom sees this somewhere.Iandian almond is the most commonly used,if this isnot sorting this fungus then there is a chance that alder cones might just help,i think both are really preventative rather than treatment. ok thats enough of the heartbrake,on to better tad stuff heres a few snaps of the gizmo just to show the differences in algal growth,possibly down to different tads munching more,an individual thing, and some of the guys,just popping those always worrying front legs,some pop the fronts together some over a couple of days in our case with these sperblue auratus,anyway
pics





take care ya'll
Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

this is "Ickle mate" our very first dart,ootw on 11th of Aug,and to illustrate the what we think is amazing growth,a little guy now feeding well from last week or there abouts,so my question is do all auratus grow this fast,8 weeks now.corse i didn't know that i shouldn't feed him too much live wild grub at first so his growth has always been mindblowing to us,the great think about the live stuff is of course no water pollution,but as always i repeat there might be risks so think carefully and harvest moreso.if we could turn out all our little froglets like this i would be a happy dartster,for sure something could go wrong yet but so far all good i think. we are really pleased he's robust strong moving well feeding well. I wonder whether rearing a dart with rainwater and wild live grub( plus other more usual feedstuffs...cyclopseeze algae and tetramin) might just give them a slightly stronger immune system,they must get low level challenges. I can't wait till next year when hopefully our tincs might be old enough to breed,real intesting to see how they get on with this basic method albeit slightly refined


another little chap just out of the water

,hmm our citron male wanted to get in on the photo shoot(probably just wanted MORE food :lol: )

belucky guys
Stu

[EntoCraig]

This is an awesome thread. Your attention to detail is inspiring.

[Stu&Shaz]

This is an awesome thread. Your attention to detail is inspiring.

thanks Craig,well we try,there is alot to understand,and we try to keep things as simple as possible but the details i guess is where the stockman starts to build the knowhow,early days yet buddy but slowly starting to get a method
thanks for the words mate,helps keeps us driven
regards
Stu

[EntoCraig]

The complements are well deserved. The tadpole hatchery is genius. I did notice a simplistic feel to your vivariums, but I think you have nailed the 'less is more' feel with your tanks. Agreed, they are not overly fancy, but well scaped and natural looking.

[Stu&Shaz]

The complements are well deserved. The tadpole hatchery is genius. I did notice a simplistic feel to your vivariums, but I think you have nailed the 'less is more' feel with your tanks. Agreed, they are not overly fancy, but well scaped and natural looking.

thanks again,as far as the natural looking a big compliment,as we live here UK,we sort of study our woodland ...we really look and then try to apply that to the pics we see of a rainforrest,hours spent in this environment where our darts actually live would be huge to us.
The tad gizmo is a work up with some design tweeks,of other folks ideas,we sort of ran with the idea.We don't use it at first prefering the old single tad /glass where it is easier to adjust water level.Then we move them once they are a bit stronger swimmers.Because darts are still water guys i have concearns about popping them in to the gizmo too early. After that for the auratus anyway its brilliant so far,extremely easy to manage,feeding a bit more, is not such a huge worry due to the filter having your back polution wise. i still have concearns about nos. in one unit because of the enhanced disease risk,but already i believe we need more of these units,i don't yet know how the other frogs will fare reared this way,but initial results seem super posative.In many ways i wish i knew how big an individual reared auratus tad grew to,had more experiance before using this,as i would be able to evaluate this method better. But so far with our beginners wisdom it is a monster success,as i said to Scott partial water changes about a minute on 24 tads,big strong tads grow in it,and so far, come out of the water,with good legs and bounce around as above.I feel abit like Oliver...please sir can i have some more......in time i want to make many more of these,and realistically one tomorrow would be nice :lol: and one next week please,oh well :roll: never enough hours in the day
regards
Stu

[EntoCraig]

Spending time outdoors is the best way to understand how habitats should look. I spend much of my time outdoors, collecting various specimens for various projects. and yes, there is never enough time for me to get some of my projects wrapped up...

[Stu&Shaz]

Spending time outdoors is the best way to understand how habitats should look. I spend much of my time outdoors, collecting various specimens for various projects. and yes, there is never enough time for me to get some of my projects wrapped up...

Better than being bored though hey mate 8)
Here's something else we are playing with;
A new viv,we are pretty sure whom this will house,but because of the nature of such frogs i'm not going to stipulate yet,i want it built running and then monitor those temps,if all is well,then the massive wait begins,so we'll call it the stoney bank :lol:
first up was a rudimentary carving of a tree trunk,this will be covered completetely with oak leaf ficus,so not too much detail a hint of it,the wood branch will do the rest,a couple of hidey/roosting places,made with film cans popped in for good measure with a holesaw,usual tools broken hack saw,plus heatgun

slab of poly,is mitred to fit to the cork,as with the next two sides,the speudo rocks have been added to the top and then the background poly carved back,to give a bit more depth to the relief,much brain ache was had over how to make this without getting stuck half way,so the method we adopted is not quite what you are seeing

and with the 3 sides

so side one first
sides 2and 3 cut to fit,but no rocks added then we built it out not attaching anything,as you'll see
we then siliconed in the rock you see in pics 2/3 this way we are sure we can get it all apart to rockoflex and epoxy,and know we can work all the individual sides,out of the viv,and then silicone them in place once all the other work is done...well thats the plan any way.
great care was taken over the initial cut of wood and the flush fit to the first stone,constant attention is being paid to where no frogs can get stuck!!!!

So here are all the background components assembled after carving ripping down heatgunning and reassembling,this way it will be relatively :roll: :lol: easy to do the work......er i hope


so silicone cures and then rockoflex,wish us luck guys
Stu

[Todd S.]

Stu the hatchery is really cool!

And this new tank design is really looking interesting! Please continue to post progress photos as it nears completion. And a look at your drainage method would be much appreciated!

Your posts truly do not cease to amaze me at any point.

Todd

[Stu&Shaz]

Stu the hatchery is really cool!

And this new tank design is really looking interesting! Please continue to post progress photos as it nears completion. And a look at your drainage method would be much appreciated!

Your posts truly do not cease to amaze me at any point.

Todd

Ha thanks mate,Todd,do you know how these ,you call em "euro vivs" work? i know its a simplistic question and in no way patronising,it will just give me a ball park as to what photo's i can take to help you get your head around this,an outline without pics for now hey mate:
Todd these vivs have a false glass floor, which is raised at the back, we build a slightly greater fall in with the ones we make, this drains to a water chanel at the front, the substrates are held in place by the broken cork bits that i'm sure you will of noted along the front.We use a drainset which is a around 1 1/2" high and a hole cut in the chanel,ie the floor of the viv. this simplistic drainset sets the level of water in the chanel,any excess overflows,and goes down a set of pipes joined to one container in which we collect the waste water. One could run this waste to a mains drain,but i don't only for the reason that if something contaminates this waste water i might infect our resident phib population with a foreign body.We have few species of amphibiam here Todd,only 3 species of newt,the rarest one lives around me, so it goes without saying that i would be utterly devistated to bring anything nasty here,and give it to them.
I'll try find some pics now and take one of the drainset if i don't have any
regards
Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

this shot shows the cork that hold back subs

this shows all the drainsets linked together,you can actually see the drainset, its grey,bttom left of each viv

this shows you the false floor which runs into the channel at the front which fills with water and hence overflows the drainset

does it make sense yet?
Stu

[Philsuma]

Superb. Never get tired of seeing those "Euro-Vivs". Wish we had em here.

[Stu&Shaz]

Superb. Never get tired of seeing those "Euro-Vivs". Wish we had em here.

thanks mate!! Phil i'm gobbsmacked you guys don't utilise them,maybe the exos that make it here are not quite the same quality as you guys get,i know i've joked with you about them before about letting ff's out :oops:. But most dartkeepers here are now using this style of viv,it just works so well,i'm stunned mate that no one over there has not cottoned on and is making these for your hobby, the design is just so damn good.I'm not knocking,american craftsmanship or anything like that at all,ha this design is german efficincy at its best,not ours. it will always amaze me mate that with your hobby so advanced in many ways,hasn't grabbed these and made them your own.When you get back up and running with those grannies mate,get some of these,and give them a try,for me. Then you can spread the word and it will mean more than comming from a novice,like me,
regards
Stu

[Todd S.]

Stu,
We do have at least 2 manufacturers of the Eurostyle enclosures here in America.
They are still heavily sought after but I think the fact that the Exo-Terra and ZooMed are available at many local pet stores has kept the Euro vivs down. Both manufacturers of the Eurostyle tanks are on the west coast of America so they need to be shipped.

Personally I have chosen the ZooMed terrariums for my own collection. While there are some issues with quality they are cheaper than the Exo-Terra (IE 18 " cube ZooMed $79.99 vs 18" cube Exo $100+) The other thing about the ZooMeds is they have 1 door vs 2. For many people such as my self this is an advantage (Aesthetically) over Exo-Terra or the Eurostyle tank with sliding doors. Aesthetically I have never been able to get past the line (From the doors meeting in the middle) going down the center of my viv. However this is a disadvantage at the same time as far as security. The upside to 2 doors is that 1 can remain closed as to keep the opening smaller and reduce chance of escapees.

Todd

[Stu&Shaz]

Stu,
We do have at least 2 manufacturers of the Eurostyle enclosures here in America.
They are still heavily sought after but I think the fact that the Exo-Terra and ZooMed are available at many local pet stores has kept the Euro vivs down. Both manufacturers of the Eurostyle tanks are on the west coast of America so they need to be shipped.

Personally I have chosen the ZooMed terrariums for my own collection. While there are some issues with quality they are cheaper than the Exo-Terra (IE 18 " cube ZooMed $79.99 vs 18" cube Exo $100+) The other thing about the ZooMeds is they have 1 door vs 2. For many people such as my self this is an advantage (Aesthetically) over Exo-Terra or the Eurostyle tank with sliding doors. Aesthetically I have never been able to get past the line (From the doors meeting in the middle) going down the center of my viv. However this is a disadvantage at the same time as far as security. The upside to 2 doors is that 1 can remain closed as to keep the opening smaller and reduce chance of escapees.

Todd

Similar here,although more are being made here now Todd,untill recently it was make your own,or one source,i hear you on the single door mate...SO loud and Clear.Todd did the drainage make sense to you or do you need more?
regards
Stu

[Todd S.]

Totally missed that post O.o.
Yeha that sounds alot better than our drainage systems over here.. which consist of either eggcrate false floors or drainage stones such as Hydroton/LECA, pea gravel or Growstone. I believe some people have used lava rock as well for a drainage layer.


While you systems involves more work at the beginning it seems like it would be alot less weight and slightly better than our eggcrate method.
Also the auto drain system would totally make life easier! Its the one thing I wouldve loved to do to the ZooMeds.. However I dont want to take the risk of cracking an $80 tank with my tight budget.
Todd

[Stu&Shaz]

Totally missed that post O.o.
Yeha that sounds alot better than our drainage systems over here.. which consist of either eggcrate false floors or drainage stones such as Hydroton/LECA, pea gravel or Growstone. I believe some people have used lava rock as well for a drainage layer.


While you systems involves more work at the beginning it seems like it would be alot less weight and slightly better than our eggcrate method.
Also the auto drain system would totally make life easier! Its the one thing I wouldve loved to do to the ZooMeds.. However I dont want to take the risk of cracking an $80 tank with my tight budget.
Todd

I wish i was able to give you a comparison Todd,but i only know this way,although i read up extensively before making a desision,what appealed instantly about the euro viv design was in my simplistic way it reminded me of a rainforrest,clean new water in at the top and a constant circulation...through flow of water,i'm not really able to articulate it better than that,i hope that makes sense,i think your statement is bang on, but without using both cannot be 100% sure.
I appreciate your concearns about drilling a ready made tank mate,utterly,i guess, because we also have similarly tight budget,thats the reason i went self build from scratch,glass is unforgiving to work with,but i'm hugely fortunate to be able to undo ,when things don't go as they should without it braking the bank.I've worked damn hard for these glass skills,but i still think i'm incredibly fortunate to be able to have some handle on messing with glass,wish i had this earlier in my life
regards
Stu

[Stu&Shaz]

ok back on the viv build,and a little pic that again i just missed the diamond...oh well :roll:
the poly sides are covered in rockoflex,again an ent product,i suspect is similar to some form of tile grout,but as always dealing with darts and not prepared to risk so going with proven safe







next up will be the backwards madness, of tryingto get the coulour of the rocks as to what i can see,but the process i use dosen't allow one to see what you have done whist doing,ha backwards that kinda sums me up well at the moment,makes me laugh at mself 8)
heres our little luecs,as i said unfortunatley just missed the prime shot which was a group hug,all 3 arms interlocking ,its 2 fellas and a suspected lass,so maybe they are up for making life even more fun for us...darts who'ld have em :roll:

seeya
Stu

[schreff]

Looks really cool. What are you using for the brown coloration?

[Stu&Shaz]

Looks really cool. What are you using for the brown coloration?

As above mate its called rockoflex,its a grounding product for the epoxy coat,it starts to strengthen up the poly,the first part is to treaat the poly with a heat gun,then this,thenepoxy coupled with either rockdust and pigments ...for er...rocks :lol: and then for the background the epoxy is covered with a peat eco earth mix,have a good read backaways mate all will become clear,i tend to abreviate,as i go along or i end up repeating myself as the method i use is not varying much now,just being nailed down...trying to perfect it...when all these 3 processes are put together the background is rock hard and of course water proof,
Ha remember i'm not in the states,so am using a work up of european methods,and then running with it :oops: as i tend to do,wouldn't be so much fun if i just went with whats accepted,plus i guess i wouldn't learn as fast. ha or fall so hard 8)
Stu