Mini-Vivarium / "Nano" Viv possible ?

[JadedRapport]

http://home.earthlink.net/~kenuy/pEQUIPMENT2.htm I found that site through Black Jungle. I love nano tanks! My two questions are: This site says there are 4 Dendrobates imitator, but I thought there is a 10g per frog ratio? Is it possible to set up nano tanks for dart frogs safely ?

[alexislake]

From the websites I've visited on dart frogs, all of them said a 10 gallon tank per dart frog. I don't really see the harm of two frogs in such a terrarium but I certainly wouldn't put four in there. I would think they wouldn't have their own territory in the tank with that setup. Also, I've had tanks with glass covers and the plants inside got too humid and stayed too wet, with their death soon arriving a few days later. Bromeliads wouldn't be able to stand all that humidity and no ventilation. I've got a nice 20 gallon tank for my dart frog, with a screen cover, and all the plants plus the frog are doing very nicely.

[JadedRapport]

Well, I wasn't going to follow that design at all because it isn't quite my taste, but I build cubes out of acrylic. I was thinking of doing a foot cube tank (7g) for them, along with the 60g I just ordered the supplies for. However, then I read the 10g per frog rule and I would like to keep at least two frogs in the foot cube, but I don't want them to be over crowded.

For the lid of the cube I was going to do 3/4 acrylic and 1/4 screen to allow venting.

[mack]

i am not an expert and i wish i knew enough about keeping different darts to be more helpful, but i can at least point out that i've read in different sources that pdf's in nature vary greatly in range of movement and territory. it is not proportional to size of the frog, i.e. smaller frog doesn't necessarily mean smaller territory. you should look into which frogs naturally have small territories. i also have an attraction to 'nano' environments, but also have a bleeding heart. i know that betas evolved to be able survive in the amount of water trapped in a hoofprint when things get dry, but personally would not keep one in such a small space. i do keep a small group of elassoma evergladei in a 2 1/2 gallon tank, because they don't really swim around much, but rather like to 'hang' in the water hidden in small plants. depending on what you find out, you might just make the beautiful nano terrarium and use it to raise the froglets from your small breeders. i understand that small spaces have real advantages for rearing small froglets. as i said i'm not an expert, so if experienced breeders have something different to say, definitely don't listen to me. and please keep us updated on what you find out, like i said i love the nano-aesthetic and would love to know more.

[JadedRapport]

That sounds like a great idea. I can just keep them in the nanos until they get larger, and then move them. This will also allow me time to build the 60g and have it running for a while before introducing frogs, but still allow me to buy frogs soon

[kleinhanz]

it is not proportional to size of the frog, i.e. smaller frog doesn't necessarily mean smaller territory. you should look into which frogs naturally have small territories

Well said, this is most certainly true!! The general rule of thumb is 10 gal per frog (not 5). This would mean you could easily house a pair of frogs in a 20 gal enclosure. Of course this is not always the best for every species and the enclosure has to properly address all the needs of the frogs (ability to climb, water, ect all depending on species).

As for the nano-cube in the link, I personally feel that it is not a good setup for a maximum of 2 imitators. Notice how the frog is on the glass, well if it had appropriate plants, hidding places, and height to climb, you would (generally) not see it on the glass.

[JadedRapport]

Thank you for correcting me on the general rule. I will be setting up many smaller tanks with this rule in mind. I know this is pretty much the same rule as in fish keeping (only so beginners won't kill the animal by keeping it crammed). I'll be sure and research any frog I get well before I buy them to make sure the tanks I build will fit their needs.

[Philsuma]

yeah....nano vivs are....not the best for frogs.

Maybe shrimp or insects. Not frogs.

[Cindy Dicken]

People seem to forget, in the wild their territory is measured in meters, not inches.
Little frogs need their space!