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Should we start a list of marketing names (made up names that have nothing to do with populations or locales) that sellers have labeled certain frogs in order to increase sales ?
a few:
eldorado pumilio
Gold Dust bastimientos
Sky Blue azureus
Chocolate leucomelas ?
fine spot leucomelas - this is a natural occurring morph and not selectively made inside the hobby.
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Giant Orange tinctorious...
-Field Smith
Some frogs...
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Blue jeans
black jeans
Citronella (were these called giant yellow back prior to Citronella )
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Glad you brought up Blue Jeans Eric !
I wonder if blue jeans is a made up "Hobby" name or if it is MUCH older than the dart frog hobby ?
I have heard that it possibly predates the hobby - the "mainstream" keeping of dart frogs in private homes or collections.
Good stuff....keep em' coming.
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Eric Walker Wrote:Blue jeans
black jeans
...
Blue Jean is an name actually thought up by, surprise surprise, the people who live in CR. It's not a "marketing ploy/name".
It has become as much a national logo as the ubiquitous RETF. Most natives don't know or care to know the differences in locales and breeding populations and include the Black Jeans (which in my mind are not only a different locale and breeding population, but a worthy of being tested as a wholly different species than pums) in with blue jeans and "strawberry" frogs.
There are several different breeding populations of what the hobby rightly considers Blue Jeans (none of which come any near Panama, at all, ever) and just as in Panama with most of their breeding populations, it has yet to be proven where the lines should be drawn.
Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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Philsuma Wrote:Should we start a list of marketing names (made up names that have nothing to do with populations or locales) that sellers have labeled certain frogs in order to increase sales ?
a few:
eldorado pumilio
Gold Dust bastimientos
Sky Blue azureus
Chocolate leucomelas ?
fine spot leucomelas - this is a natural occurring morph and not selectively made inside the hobby.
"Mainland Cristobal"
"Fine Spot Azureus"
"Lemon Drop Tinc"
"All Blue This, All Red Thats, Thing One and Thing Two, Ethical Flipper" :wink:
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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Some hobby people hate the term "Blue Jeans" for Costa Rican pums but I'm here to tell ya, like Rich said....THAT term isn't going anywhere. Costa Rica uses it as a symbol of their country and tourism.
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Rich, I agree that there are no known blue jean populations in Panama, but in that recent CVD guide there are some frogs in Panama that look like very similar to blue jeans I've seen, particularly in Christobal. It looked like they were just variability within populations. Just interesting to note...
As for blue jeans/black jeans, it seems that the name would be better served by listing locale info along with that name. I.E. Sarapiqui Blue Jeans, Siquirres Black Jeans which is something it seems some people including Rich already do.
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cbreon Wrote:Rich, I agree that there are no known blue jean populations in Panama, but in that recent CVD guide there are some frogs in Panama that look like very similar to blue jeans I've seen, particularly in Christobal. It looked like they were just variability within populations. Just interesting to note...
Hi Craig,
Blue Jean is a CR term, for CR pums. For us hobbyists who care about lineage and management it always has been Costa Rican. Nicaraguan pums aside, which are not an issue for/with the hobby now , as it stands for misnomers or marketing.
There are several known blue jean populations in CR , divided by huge barriers, they have just not yet been properly dived up by both name ( locale names would be best) and breeding range/extent of range. No pums have, be they Panama , Nic., or CR.
I can name about five-six, or more if i took the time, hobby names of different Panama pum breeding populations which look very similar to BJs , and given cherry picking rights and photo rights I could fool the best native or pum 'expert' into thinking they were CR BJs. There is always variability in pums, all of them, some more than others. This is why I tell people to never stick any definitive label on any pum solely from info via any pictures on any sites.
I have a good number of friends who could pass as a good number of nationalities/gene pools. This was brought up when talking to an X-FBI friend when we discussed what it would take to blend and 'get' a high dollar drug lord in Mex. My buddy is Greek , and would phenotypically blend well.
Question; without Googling...
How many legs does a dog have if you call it's tail a leg?
Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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Exactly my point Rich, and it seems the general direction of the hobby is moving toward more specific locale information when possible, so calling bj's by their locale-bj name seems apropos.
As for people, we probably should not refer to them by their locale, i.e. Jimmy the Greek 
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cbreon Wrote:Exactly my point Rich, and it seems the general direction of the hobby is moving toward more specific locale information when possible, so calling bj's by their locale-bj name seems apropos.
Froggers are slowly moving because after screaming for years, and after all of the ones that do actually look alike, it's sinking in that the ONLY way to manage is via hard data. Locale data is just that. The next step is to attempt to form breeding lines on a map. The easy part is finding site locale frogs, the hard and yet to be attempted part is the line drawing.
Given the history of our hobby , and the present state of some who rat on those who are above board and legal, and others who prod for government intervention (scary , freakin' scary) it's very understandable to publicly put very broad names to certain frogs.
cbreon Wrote:As for people, we probably should not refer to them by their locale, i.e. Jimmy the Greek
I don't know, I kind of like the 'old school' way of slapping the obvious ethnic nick name on the obvious. I've at times wished to have been born in Turkey so I could swagger around as 'Richie the Turk'. I'm sure I would have butted heads with Jimmy the Greek, but that's part of the fun. Just glad I was not born in France. I dealt with enough french fry pokes as a kid.
BTW, the answer to the question;
"How many legs does a dog have if you call it's tail a leg?"
It has four legs. Calling something a leg does not make it so.
Lincoln
Just as calling any one of the best guesses still hopping around our hobby an 'X' does not make it so.
Rich
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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Rich you forgot the "kalua and Creme" Auratus Those were site specific under a kiki hut bar on frog beach... :lol:
Scott - North Dallas
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Let's not forget sky blue azureus and lemon drop yellow backs
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Where are eldorado pumilios really from? I know they aren't site specific but I was wondering what general area they come from. In other words what are they suppose to be called?
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"eldorado" pumilio broke into the U.S hobby with an 2008-ish import by SNDF / Strictly and it was a made-up marketing term. Eldorado is the mythical south American 'city of Gold' and these pumilio are more or less...gold / red-gold with some more or less solid and some with curious black flecking - not spots.
There population range is most likely large - touching other populations, similar to the 'aguacate' range of various blue frogs. Most all pumilio ranges are not well known and mapped to my knowledge, but the 'eldorado' representation can be considered near las tablas and northern inland (non insular) Panama and closer to Costa Rica.
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Thank you Phil for the in-depth explanation. Very interesting.
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