Is keeping Dart Frogs -Conservation ?

[BrianWI]

Some arguments for how one keeps dart frogs are based around how one defines conservation. To me, conservation of wild animals MUST include their natural habitats. That is why I don't believe we are practicing conservation in any real sense and are instead keeping pets. Were the goal true conservation, we would leave them in their habitats, not put them, as so many say, in glass boxes.

Can you conserve the captive population, conserve diversity in our pets? Sure. Just like conserving heritage breeds of animals that are close to disappearing. However, I believe they're ability and comfort at living in captivity (they are not wild animals, they are captive animals) trumps a diverse group of alleles. That group already exists in the wild, and if it doesn't, we won't be able to save it with captive populations, especially if we are not conserving the natural habitat loss or other base reasons for their disappearance. Again, because they are pets, I believe pets should be best served by helping them live in this new environment. That could mean selecting for traits that help them live better in pet environments. Caging an animal best suited for life in the wild is sad.

Because we are dealing with pets, I also find breeding to taste is not evil. However, it does not release us from doing so in a responsible manner. I like to present those breeding techniques that can allow this to happen without detriment to the population. Yes, this can be argued to the extreme, that any selection is "bad". However, nature selects as well. Is that bad too?

[Philsuma]

Hi Brian,

Your thread topic has a much better start with an already existing thread found here:

featured-poll-f66/poll-is-keeping-frogs-in-glass-boxes-conservation-t5250.html

Just speaking for me personally...I'd be glad to discuss and debate anyone who is an honest member of the dart frog community. I've opened my house and frog room up to over 40 different members -forum members. I've given away items, supplies and animals as well.

What I'm NOT willing to do is debate and argue with someone who has no vested interest in our Hobby. I think 98% of the viewers of this forum and the other forum are not convinced you are someone who is like us.

A quick but important question Brian....are you a member of PETA or "Save the Frogs" ?

[Rusty_Shackleford]

This IS the definition of Conservartion
1: a careful preservation and protection of something; especially: planned management of a natural resource to prevent exploitation, destruction, or neglect

The committed dart frog hobbyists are conservationists. First off committed to keeping the gene pool as close as possible to the wild type by NOT mixing species and hybridizing frogs or creating designer frogs. Many of us support and give to organization that promote amphibian conservation in the wild. I know many of us who are planning to donate frogs and other items at Frog Day 2012 to help Amphibian Ark in their conservation efforts.
The first step in conservation is EDUCATION, take that to heart Brian.
Many people must be educated on many things. Most importantly are the natives, for they are without doubt doing the most harm by means of habitat destruction. But why? All they are looking for is a way to make a living, to feed their family. So first we must educate them on the perils of what they are doing to the environment and TEACH them a different way to make a living, or at least utilize practices that wreak the least amount of havoc on the ecosystem.

Yet another point you are wrong about is the assumption that because our frogs live in glass boxes they are not wild. While not caught in the wild they are still wild animals. Because if they are not wild animals what are they domesticated? No. Is a lion living in captivity a wild animal even though it's in captivity, yes it is. Therefore Brian...wrong again!!

Brian what are Zoo's doing if not conservation? Breeding pet elephants?
Breeding to taste IS evil, in this hobby. Like it or not, you are in the minority on this one, as evidenced by the massive beat downs you have received in other frog forums.
Now Brian are you done making yourself an outcast and a pariah? Personally I love it when someone of little knowledge and even less experience shows their own ass.

[BrianWI]

I have a couple azureus. I am enjoying them, but oddly enough, with my background in insects, I am really enjoying the fruitflies, springtales and woodlice just as much! Plus the micromini plants. I am lucky to have a lot of resources and have been able to acquire whatever interests me. I couldn't do hobbies on a budget!

I don't get into animal rights groups, although I ensure the proper care of animals. I have rescued quite a few. Yet, I have created some really tasty breeds, too.

It is hard to find all relevant posts as the built in SE's suck on forums. But if you feel there is something that is a must read, feel free to repost it. I appreciate the insights.

[BrianWI]

I should add, I am NOT like you, Phil. I don't need to see any link to conservation. I am fine with pets. I cannot even see much education to the general public thru this hobby that warrants what it may drain. But I long ago accepted that people consume and don't have a huge issue with it. We will inevitable consume the planet unless nature stops us.