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It was discussed in another thread that several thumbs FR from Peru were imported into the US outside of Mark Pepper. Can anyone else shed some light on this? I'm not interested in hearing what Sidney sold, brought in, or anything else about him. Would just like to hear if anyone else knows.
All that I'm aware of is that some Vents came in and were being sold as red vents by two amigos. I believe them to be Iquitos vents since they were imported from Iquitos but could be wrong. Was this it or was there any other thumbs imported?
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I didn't see them in person, but inquired and asked about them and they appeared to be Iquitos vents. I remember seeing some pics of them. Those were the only thumbs they imported from Peru.
rcteem Wrote:It was discussed in another thread that several thumbs FR from Peru were imported into the US outside of Mark Pepper. Can anyone else shed some light on this? Im not interested in hearing what Sidney sold, brought in, or anything else about him. Would just like to hear if anyone else knows.
All that I'm aware of is that some Vents came in and were being sold as red vents by two amigos. I believe them to be Iquitos vents since they were imported from Iquitos but could be wrong. Was this it or was there any other thumbs imported?
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And as Mark P previously stated no one has obtained paperwork or permission to send thumbs out of Peru recently, so those 'iquitos vents' seem mighty shady.
Here's another link discussing a thread by a frogger you might recognize- "Happy Frogger"
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^^ Took out the link, Craig.
Yes...Chris posted this same question 1/2 a year ago. I Don't think that thread got an answer though. Not sure this one will either but I do like the question.
Do not like secondary SN's...and seriously hope that they are a 'thing of the past"...
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Then Mark P. is incorrect, as I have brought out thumbs out of Peru as well. I know for a fact that the ones Twoo Amigos got were legally exported from Peru with full CITES paperwork. Nothing shady about those animals. Several herp farms down there have permission to breed and export a few species of dart frogs.
cbreon Wrote:And as Mark P previously stated no one has obtained paperwork or permission to send thumbs out of Peru recently, so those 'iquitos vents' seem mighty shady.
Here's another link discussing a thread by a frogger you might recognize- "Happy Frogger"
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cbreon Wrote:And as Mark P previously stated no one has obtained paperwork or permission to send thumbs out of Peru recently, so those 'iquitos vents' seem mighty shady.
Here's another link discussing a thread by a frogger you might recognize- "Happy Frogger"
Yes I asked this very same question on db under the second username I created. However it was a legal import and heard that retics were supposed to come in legally too. Just trying to get an answer to this question.
Craig, feel free to ask Marcus B. as he was the one who informed me two amigos had them. I also personally have seen a farm in Iquitos where they were breeding these and selling them to Japan for 6 euros each at the time. Possibly this farm is now selling to the US too?
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Philsuma Wrote:^^ Took out the link, Craig.
Yes...Chris posted this same question 1/2 a year ago. I Don't think that thread got an answer though. Not sure this one will either but I do like the question.
Do not like secondary SN's...and seriously hope that they are a 'thing of the past"...
Yes Phil, no more secondary SNs
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Interesting to note others with legal exports out of Peru. I hope all are being done to the same level of UE and not the faux-farming you see elsewhere. I am all for sustainable exports that focus on the health of exports and the parent population.
On another note, what kind of site info was Two Amigos offering?
Justin, what kind of info did you get with your imports?
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cbreon Wrote:Interesting to note others with legal exports out of Peru. I hope all are being done to the same level of UE and not the faux-farming you see elsewhere. I am all for sustainable exports that focus on the health of exports and the parent population.
On another note, what kind of site info was Two Amigos offering?
Justin, what kind of info did you get with your imports?
It's no where near as good as what Mark P. is doing. No site data was available.
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At the places I visited, it was real farming with very limited amounts of offspring available. The animals being bred were collect close by the farms, so locale animals, but they don't really sell them as such. The wonders knew where they came from if you asked. Two Amigos was offering no site info, but I knew the exporter and they were Iquitos animals.
I got info from the exporter where they were obtained, but only when I asked.
I'm pretty satisfied with the Peru gov. ensuring that farmed animals are in fact, farmed. They required documentation on each specimen, it was pretty intense. Thy were also inspected regularly.
cbreon Wrote:Interesting to note others with legal exports out of Peru. I hope all are being done to the same level of UE and not the faux-farming you see elsewhere. I am all for sustainable exports that focus on the health of exports and the parent population.
On another note, what kind of site info was Two Amigos offering?
Justin, what kind of info did you get with your imports?
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BluePumilio Wrote:Then Mark P. is incorrect, as I have brought out thumbs out of Peru as well. I know for a fact that the ones Twoo Amigos got were legally exported from Peru with full CITES paperwork. Nothing shady about those animals. Several herp farms down there have permission to breed and export a few species of dart frogs.
cbreon Wrote:And as Mark P previously stated no one has obtained paperwork or permission to send thumbs out of Peru recently, so those 'iquitos vents' seem mighty shady.
Here's another link discussing a thread by a frogger you might recognize- "Happy Frogger"
Sort of like how several CR establishments can export CB darts ...Boy, learn something new all the time.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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BluePumilio Wrote:...
I'm pretty satisfied with the Peru gov. ensuring that farmed animals are in fact, farmed. They required documentation on each specimen, it was pretty intense. Thy were also inspected regularly.
cbreon Wrote:Interesting to note others with legal exports out of Peru. I hope all are being done to the same level of UE and not the faux-farming you see elsewhere. I am all for sustainable exports that focus on the health of exports and the parent population.
On another note, what kind of site info was Two Amigos offering?
Justin, what kind of info did you get with your imports?
Main issue of note is the Peru gov attempts to ensure that there is infact sustainable harvest of parent stock.
Highland lamasi for example will not be farmed.
CR does the same , and main issue of note is all known populations of darts there are healthy (as opposed to spin put out the the contrary...) and possible to be Cb and exported commercially.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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RichFrye Wrote:BluePumilio Wrote:...
I'm pretty satisfied with the Peru gov. ensuring that farmed animals are in fact, farmed. They required documentation on each specimen, it was pretty intense. Thy were also inspected regularly.
cbreon Wrote:Interesting to note others with legal exports out of Peru. I hope all are being done to the same level of UE and not the faux-farming you see elsewhere. I am all for sustainable exports that focus on the health of exports and the parent population.
On another note, what kind of site info was Two Amigos offering?
Justin, what kind of info did you get with your imports?
Main issue of note is the Peru gov attempts to ensure that there is infact sustainable harvest of parent stock.
Highland lamasi for example will not be farmed.
CR does the same , and main issue of note is all known populations of darts there are healthy (as opposed to spin put out the the contrary...) and possible to be Cb and exported commercially.
Its good to see properly managed projects, producing sustainable offspring...
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And by sustainable, I mean during the period deemed needed for the project collection . A better term may be responsible harvest .
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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RichFrye Wrote:And by sustainable, I mean during the period deemed needed for the project collection . A better term may be responsible harvest .
It seems like, gradually, the bar is getting pushed higher. We are a long way from red pumilio and green auratus of the early 2000's. Obviously we would like to see more steps taken, but it seems things are continually improving. Responsible harvesting, sustainable breeding projects, with more info, it is promising...
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cbreon Wrote:RichFrye Wrote:And by sustainable, I mean during the period deemed needed for the project collection . A better term may be responsible harvest .
It seems like, gradually, the bar is getting pushed higher. We are a long way from red pumilio and green auratus of the early 2000's. Obviously we would like to see more steps taken, but it seems things are continually improving. Responsible harvesting, sustainable breeding projects, with more info, it is promising...
Well, the projects (many, in different countries) have been on-going for years now. I think what's SLOWLY happening is that people are being properly educated ( when they dig and trust those who should be trusted) against propaganda, spin, incorrect BS, and have an actual want for pedigree done in responsible manors.
There are still many bad projects (business projects) which too many still support due to flash and cheap frogs. And that won't change. There's also still many bad people who get their frogs illegally and at least unethically those same people support, and that also won't change.
Why the supposed 'new' info that Peru and CR have multiple avenues for legal commercial export???
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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RichFrye Wrote:CR does the same , and main issue of note is all known populations of darts there are healthy (as opposed to spin put out the the contrary...) and possible to be Cb and exported commercially.
Actually, there are a few populations of granulifera that are not considered healthy. They also happen to have been smuggled to EU in recent years. Of course...
Adam Hess
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The only reason why I was asking is because I heard through someone in FL that two amigos was also trying to get in retics, imis, and vanzolini. I just never heard if that has happened yet or not a chance to ever happen.
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thedude Wrote:RichFrye Wrote:CR does the same , and main issue of note is all known populations of darts there are healthy (as opposed to spin put out the the contrary...) and possible to be Cb and exported commercially.
Actually, there are a few populations of granulifera that are not considered healthy. They also happen to have been smuggled to EU in recent years. Of course...
I should have said all color phase populations are very healthy. Tons of the three main color phases to be seen.
You are correct, I'm sure there are smuggled , isolated breeding populations which have been effected, but that's the case with many , many small single populations across dartdom.
Bottom line, grannies are doing very, very well as a species in CR. They are all over the foothills, from the southern border (Golfito area) up past the Quepos area. The CR government would not allow collection if this were not the case. You are harder pressed to find large numbers of auratus.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
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BluePumilio Wrote:Then Mark P. is incorrect, as I have brought out thumbs out of Peru as well. I know for a fact that the ones Twoo Amigos got were legally exported from Peru with full CITES paperwork. Nothing shady about those animals. Several herp farms down there have permission to breed and export a few species of dart frogs.
cbreon Wrote:And as Mark P previously stated no one has obtained paperwork or permission to send thumbs out of Peru recently, so those 'iquitos vents' seem mighty shady.
Here's another link discussing a thread by a frogger you might recognize- "Happy Frogger" Mark P is incorrect? Will you tell tell us which ranitomeya you have brought in and are currently working on to bring in? Besides understory enterprises, where can we search for new and past available ranitomeyas? I'm sure other ranitomeya afficionados are curious to know this.....what's the next big ranitomeya coming in and when?
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