Salt Creek froglets - Pics !

[stemcellular]

Picked up a trio back in February and after a few months in QT they went into their new enclosure in late May... less than two months later, 4 froglets so far!









Enclosure for a 1.2 trio




4 froglets so far...

[stemcellular]

If you look at the tank on the left you can see a froglet hanging out in the top right hand corner...

[Philsuma]

Awesome Ray. Love those tall tanks with the chimneys.

Is it safe to say that 'Salt Creek' pumilio have grey legs / markings ?

[frogfreak]

They legs almost look silver in colour.

Nice Ray!

[stemcellular]

Not really, I saw a large number of them and they were all highly variable. All had white bellies, but some were speckled, some were more orange, etc. my trio all look identical - fire engine red. And yet so far, froglets all look different.

[wohlerswi]

Bravo Ray. That is amazing. I saw one of my females transporting a couple weeks ago so I am anxious to see that sight brother. Ill bet you were stoked when you saw the first one...and the second one...and the third one....and the fourth one lol. How long you think they have been out?
Will

[RichFrye]

Incredible how they look 100% like PN's Salt Creeks...AKA orange and greens, AKA original salt creeks...
Beautiful frogs and pics.

[wohlerswi]

My monitor and eyes must be fucked up because I dont see any green on Ray's babys at all. Also none of my adults have "green" legs. All of my adults and all the ones I have seen in person have grey legs, or red/orange legs and grey feet. The original "orange and green" that I have seen in pictures look nothing like these guys in person. IDK but Rich how can you look at the "orange and green" and look at "salt creek" and say they are one in the same locale? Arnt you 100% against visually identifying pumilio? Even as variable as salt creeks are, I have yet to see a green legged individual.
Will

[RichFrye]

My monitor and eyes must be fucked up because I dont see any green on Ray's babys at all. Also none of my adults have "green" legs. All of my adults and all the ones I have seen in person have grey legs, or red/orange legs and grey feet. The original "orange and green" that I have seen in pictures look nothing like these guys in person. IDK but Rich how can you look at the "orange and green" and look at "salt creek" and say they are one in the same locale? Arnt you 100% against visually identifying pumilio? Even as variable as salt creeks are, I have yet to see a green legged individual.
Will

Will, you make my point for me, easily too. F-bomb and all...
Mark Pulowski was the one who said 100% , 100% that he talked to Patrick and was convinced they were 100% the same as his green and orange aka salt creek. I brought up doubt when they came in.
Thanks for the confirmation. Check past posts...

[RichFrye]

My monitor and eyes must be fucked up because I dont see any green on Ray's babys at all. Also none of my adults have "green" legs. All of my adults and all the ones I have seen in person have grey legs, or red/orange legs and grey feet. The original "orange and green" that I have seen in pictures look nothing like these guys in person. IDK but Rich how can you look at the "orange and green" and look at "salt creek" and say they are one in the same locale? Arnt you 100% against visually identifying pumilio? Even as variable as salt creeks are, I have yet to see a green legged individual.
Will

Here you go Will, so you don't have to dig. My post was pointing out the fact they are 100% NOT the same. Sarcasm does not always translate well via the web.

Re: Oophaga pumilio import and non site specific

by markpulawski » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:47 am

Pat Nabors got almost all the salt Creek imported with that 90's shipment, he says they are the exact same frog as he got part of this batch as well and comparing them next to each other, the exact same frog 100%. For those that say this could be something different have you actually seen any? ...

[stemcellular]

I can't comment on any of the above. All I can comment upon is this newest import. See below for photos of other ones that came in with my group. Highly variable to say the least. Really looking forward to seeing what my trio produces as far as variability.

Snapshots of an imported population of O.pumilio, known by some as Salt Creek...

[stemcellular]

[stemcellular]

[Philsuma]

Pure 'Crack-y' frog picture goodness !

You're like a dealer Ray...shame on you and your little camera.

[wohlerswi]

Hey Rich, sorry for the f* bomb if it offended you, wasn't my intentions at all. I do remember seeing that post from Mark originally, and I just decided not to comment on that but yes you are right sarcasm doesnt translate well sometimes on the internet. Anyway I wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything but had to make sure we were looking at the same frogs brother. I would agree with you then that these do not resemble any of the "orange and green" I have seen but then again I dont know how variable the orange and green were when they came in either. Rich do you have any pics of the orange and green pumilio that arn't ones already been posted? Im curious in how variable they are just from a couple different pictures.
Will

[stemcellular]

Ha, my new employee is a prof photographer.... totally looking forward to having her over to take some photos with her 20K setup...

[RichFrye]

Hey Rich, sorry for the f* bomb if it offended you, wasn't my intentions at all. I do remember seeing that post from Mark originally, and I just decided not to comment on that but yes you are right sarcasm doesnt translate well sometimes on the internet. Anyway I wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything but had to make sure we were looking at the same frogs brother. I would agree with you then that these do not resemble any of the "orange and green" I have seen but then again I dont know how variable the orange and green were when they came in either. Rich do you have any pics of the orange and green pumilio that arn't ones already been posted? Im curious in how variable they are just from a couple different pictures.
Will

Will, I lost the only pics I had personally of a frog someone sent me , years ago, as a "solarte"...then salt creek. He explained the lineage back to Patrick. I did not keep the frog. But, it looked just like all the other green and orange I have seen over the years. Orange with green/grey legs. Nothing what so ever at all like any of the above pics.

[wohlerswi]

Do the "orange and green" have white bellies? Or at least the one you had possession of? That is the one thing I have never seen in a picture, and I couldnt tell with the couple I have seen in person. They were kind of laying down with their legs tucked under (this was at a show years back). I tried emailing Patrick about it, but never received a response.

[stemcellular]

There are populations on solarte that also have white bellies... in the end, anything that isn't hand picked with site data is just an O. pumilio population. We may use signifiers such as Salt Creek, or Rio Branco, but in the end its all contingent on questionable or incomplete data. I don't think we should be questioning whether these frogs are from the same population as Patrick's Salt Creeks. Personally, I adopt the view that each import provides a snapshot of a population that should be maintained and not crossed with other earlier imports. Now we cannot ensure that each import of a population is from the same area (honestly, I'm pretty sure they aren't as I can't imagine locals selecting from one section and not mixing those with another population en route back to whereever they are storing the frogs), but we can manage those imports in a way that AIMS to keep the import populations together as representative of a certain population in space and time. For me, I have some fire engine red O. pumilio that are clearly from the same location (they are identical in size, color and came in the same import). Now they might be from the area known as Salt Creek, from Solarte, from the Mainland, from Kansas... personally, it doesn't change whether I enjoy working with them. They were imported together and called Salt Creek, so for me they are Salt Creek, 2012 winter imports from SR, and pretty amazing ones at that. For those working with Patrick's line, great, but I wouldn't mix the two as his frogs represent a separate import.

[RichFrye]

Do the "orange and green" have white bellies? Or at least the one you had possession of? That is the one thing I have never seen in a picture, and I couldnt tell with the couple I have seen in person. They were kind of laying down with their legs tucked under (this was at a show years back). I tried emailing Patrick about it, but never received a response.

Not at all to the extrent of Ray's pictured.