Posts: 137
Threads: 23
Joined: Apr 2012
Can someone chime in and help me here. Ive got females laying, males calling, great microfauna, calcium and clay walking areas, and misting three times a day.
Why arent any of my eggs getting fertilized!!??
I have clutches laid weekly form my eldorado and chiriqui, that all mold over. Im at a loss. Help.  
Posts: 198
Threads: 32
Joined: Jan 2012
Are you dusting with a vit A supplement?
Posts: 137
Threads: 23
Joined: Apr 2012
Just calcium d3 and superpig....
Posts: 198
Threads: 32
Joined: Jan 2012
Check out this thread (particularly what Field had to say):
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=5537&hilit=bad+eggs+vitamin+A
Posts: 10,389
Threads: 871
Joined: Oct 2008
Females laying eggs without a male fertilizing them ?
I guess you should start by 100% verifying all the supposed males - make sure you see the throat sack and call, ect.
then, I would toss all your supps and buy new. Try for a 3-4 rotation of different vits and 2-3 different calcs.
Posts: 830
Threads: 42
Joined: Sep 2010
KGB Wrote:Just calcium d3 and superpig....
Just calcium and superpig? So they frogs aren't getting any vitamins and minerals at all? I bet that's the problem right there. Just as a side note, Repashy recommends that superpig comprise no more than 6% of the total diet. I'm willing to bet you are well above that.
Jon
Posts: 137
Threads: 23
Joined: Apr 2012
I use superpig once a month. And use calcium vit d with every feeding... calcium=mineral, vit D=vitamin... I am introducing vit A today as well...
Rusty_Shackleford Wrote:KGB Wrote:Just calcium d3 and superpig....
Just calcium and superpig? So they frogs aren't getting any vitamins and minerals at all? I bet that's the problem right there. Just as a side note, Repashy recommends that superpig comprise no more than 6% of the total diet. I'm willing to bet you are well above that.
Posts: 830
Threads: 42
Joined: Sep 2010
Just because calcium is a mineral and Vit D is a vitamin, does not make this a complete supplemental regime, nor does the addition of a Vit A supplement make it complete either.
My suggestion to you would be to invest in a few, high quality, supplement formulas. Examples would be Repashy Calcium Plus, Dendrocare, Nekton Rep.
How do you know your frogs are getting enough Magnesium, Potasium, Zinc, Folic Acid, etc. ?
With the addition of a high quality supplement like Calcium Plus, additional Vit A supplementation should be a rarity and in many cases never necessary at all.
Jon
Posts: 137
Threads: 23
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 355
Threads: 11
Joined: Jun 2012
How about an update? What vitamin/mineral supps did you add, and are your eggs now being fertilized?
P. Terribilis orange, R. Imitator Cainarachi Valley, D. Leucomelas, D. Auratus, D. Azureus, P. vittatus, D. cobalts, D.Oyapok, Bombina Orientalis
Posts: 137
Threads: 23
Joined: Apr 2012
I have been rotating Vitamin A, Nepkon (sp), Multi vitamin, Calcium. My eldos did produce a fertile clutch, then chose not to transport them. Chiriqui, still no good clutches.
Posts: 355
Threads: 11
Joined: Jun 2012
How frustrating for you! Did you transport the eldos? Any make it? It seems like it must be a nutritional deficit, assuming they are well fed, have adequate space, good temps and adequate humidity. Let's see, Vitamin A is supposed to be once a month I believe, and the vitamins and minerals every day or two, right? How many eldos and chiriqui do you have, and in what size vivs? Do you have springs and isos in their vivs, and plants and leaf litter?
P. Terribilis orange, R. Imitator Cainarachi Valley, D. Leucomelas, D. Auratus, D. Azureus, P. vittatus, D. cobalts, D.Oyapok, Bombina Orientalis
Posts: 4,450
Threads: 398
Joined: Jun 2004
There's no chart for exactly how much anything will be ingested while taking down random amounts of flies with random amounts of dust. Which is why it's important when dusting to only dust with proven safe dusts.
There should absolutely be no reason to have to dust anything every day or two. Nor to feed adult frogs every day or two.
One reason some people say to rotate (I don't rotate, I found what works for my personal frogs and stick with that formula) is that nobody knows for sure what's the exact best amount of 'X' for our frogs and how to get it to them in exact amounts.
And when many are asked "what's wrong with my frog", many guessers go right to the stuff we 'need' to dump on top of our frogs flies or possibly other large bugs.
Who did the frogs come from, in other words, were they CB or WC pums?
What was the exact quarantine procedure and what was found during the testing period?
If they are CB , how old are they?
More questions to come after the second question is answered, because it's the phase where a real professional is supposed to give his or her professional opinion on the state of health of the newly acquired frogs. And we'd need that info to go forward to suggest adding anything new or different to the current stuff getting dusted on the FFs.
One thing people rarely put out there, too much dusted or gut-fed vitamin A is way worse for your frogs than too little supplemented A. I've witnessed proven hypervitaminosis with A, not often Hypo.
You can not beat a varied diet.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
Posts: 10,389
Threads: 871
Joined: Oct 2008
Agree ^ with most all of that Rich.
The only caveat I would place, is that human beings are getting notoriously lazy, froggers especially. The current dogma (right back atcha Big "E") is that there is a 'top notch' damn near miracle supplement out there - Rapashy. By using that product, we have absolutely no need to look/think/explore anything else. Marketing and 'pushing' by the more vocal 'in crowd' has deemed that product is "ALL ANYONE WOULD EVER NEED'.
Wrong-O IMO.
I still recommend the Rotation Method. Just my opinion, mind you. I do however feel the need to be equally vocal and counteract the loud buzz from the other crowd.
Rich, you are correct about 'too much' Vitamin A. I think Dendrocare and Nekton Rep is 'safe' with their levels of ingredients - someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Varied microfauna, great in-tank populations of same, calcium added substrate and heck, even some occasional U.V are ALL what I would go for and recommend.
but in the end, when we must supply a NEW hobbyist with a vitamin and Calcium / mineral husbandry answer - I'll tell them to dust often and with a varied rotation regime every time. The alternative of very little dusting or over-reliance on Repashy is the worse course of husbandry for the new hobbyist.
Oh...and totally agree....no studies that I am aware of, have been done / helpful on captive born supplements and their effects on U.S dart frog husbandry
Posts: 137
Threads: 23
Joined: Apr 2012
I am hesitant to reply to any thread, even one I have created. Dont feel like being attacked and judged for simply asking questions. But anyways... I rotate my four supplements each once a month. My small frogs only get fed once, mayyyybe twice a week. Usually just once. My tanks are full of microfauna and springtails. Also, I use clay and calcium dust areas that the frogs walk on. A frogger once told me this is good, they absorb the minerals through their skin. Apparently the rainforest and central America has a high clay content. Constructive criticism only please. Thanks.
Posts: 10,389
Threads: 871
Joined: Oct 2008
I was just going to address that KGB and apologize if you took anything I said personally. I love to use threads here on Dart Den, or any forum for that matter as teaching tools and opportunities for greater discussion on the whole. Although I am hesitant to speak for Rich, I would venture to say he does the same.
That said, I can easily see where someone who starts a thread, wants nothing more than a personal response to his specific questions and not an expanded topic or even additional posts.
Again, I apologize if the content here was not what you hoped for and please...don't take it personal or think that I was speaking directly to, or about, you and your situations.
Posts: 4,450
Threads: 398
Joined: Jun 2004
KGB Wrote:I am hesitant to reply to any thread, even one I have created. Dont feel like being attacked and judged for simply asking questions. But anyways... I rotate my four supplements each once a month. My small frogs only get fed once, mayyyybe twice a week. Usually just once. My tanks are full of microfauna and springtails. Also, I use clay and calcium dust areas that the frogs walk on. A frogger once told me this is good, they absorb the minerals through their skin. Apparently the rainforest and central America has a high clay content. Constructive criticism only please. Thanks.
What was the full quarantine procedure, now that we've gone over the supplements?
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
Posts: 4,450
Threads: 398
Joined: Jun 2004
I fail to see anyone getting jumped on at all or picked on or any other reason to hesitate to ask a question.
The answers are not always what everyone wants to hear, but that's what happens when nobody's perfect.
I'm pointing out to a vast number of people that there are a number of different ways to look at supplementing as it pertains to fixing all things Dart...I happen to think quarantine is as important if not more than any one simple supplement, as one example.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
Posts: 10,389
Threads: 871
Joined: Oct 2008
I agree, no one got jumped on, but I just wanted to clarify my "Lazy Hobbyist" remark. I usually write the 'edgier' stuff when I'm writing my own threads and I can see where it could have been misconstrued that I thought the OP was downright lazy. Not the case.
Posts: 4,450
Threads: 398
Joined: Jun 2004
You feel the need to explain "human beings are getting notoriously lazy" ?
Forgive me, but I agree 100% with your statement , and feel you are hand feeding the lazy who can't grasp what you are saying .
'They're lazy, so let me clarify to the lazy'.
Ask questions (if the topics/concerns can't already be found from others' typing for years) and if you don't get the answer you want from everyone who has much more experience and/or 'success' , suck it up and realize that nobody is perfect, you may be actual responsible and even possibly at fault (oh nooooo) and, ... it's not how we fall, it's how we get up. Appreciate the bluntness of something besides "sorry for your loss" and learn. Being able to laugh at one's self is a good attribute too.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
|
