Classified Ad Policy here on Dart Den.

[Philsuma]

it's almost like Sponsor money is payment / insurance against 'bad press' - which is just plain wrong.

[Philsuma]

"I will meet you in the parking lot to transfer frogs at the big AAA Reptile show'.

I do see the side of this that has possible ethical implications and DEF see the side of this that has illegal implications - transactions on private property

Solution:

1. Make sure transfers are done OFF private property

2. Reptile shows need to have roving pairs of helpers in the parking lot as well as going thru the building looking for such transfers and being proactive in appearance ect, in stopping these transactions. Heck most shows could get 4-8 people to help perform this service for allowing them inside early / for free. Almost NO cost to the show!

Bottom line:

Unless someone is blatantly posting on how to circumvent the show policies, then otherwise, this is a 'Reptile Show' problem and not a Forum issue.

[Philsuma]

NOBODY will pay a yearly 'membership' fee to a Forum - at least a Dart Frog Forum, IMO.

The Forums MUST be free or people will either do without or use Facebook.

[TonyI25]

It seems already a lot of people are using facebook now a days because so many rules are being implemented on these forums and so many people are very opinionated on here. Either way I don't see a problem. I agree with the post minimum and let the administrators judge if they are valid posts or not to be counted. People are in these hobby for the love and beauty of the frogs or just trying to make money. I always love seeing vendors or even hobbyist making contributions to frog conservations from their makings. Always an amazing things for the hobby and for the frogs in the wild. Anyway I say just do he minimum post and have the administrators be the judge of if a valid post or not.

[Philsuma]

Does the TYPE of show matter in this debate ?

1. 'Reptile Show"

vs

2. International Amphibian Day or Frog Day ?

Thoughts ?

[frogfreak]

I don't recall anyone ever complaining about this issue before except not to do it on the show property.

Look at when we went to Frog day 2012. All kinds of people traded, sold and bought things in the rooms. It was common knowledge and posted all over the frog day thread. Same thing, no? It still hurts the vendors, no? They missed out on the sales, no? I didn't hear/read any complaints...

The difference today is that the market is flooded IMO. It's harder to sell frogs. Supply is way up and demand is way down. Economics..

And, lets no forget we're still trying to fight our way out of a recession...Less disposable income = less money for toys and hobbies.

With that said, supporting various sponsors/vendors is always a good idea IMO.

[Philsuma]

Plus there is only 9-10% of all Dart Frog owners being in it for a 'business' or profit.

99% of all those parking lot and room transfers are hobbyists that try to turn some froglets into $$ to put RIGHT BACK into the hobby or pay for other frogs. Hardly a profit. Definitely a hobby.

I think the LLL hobby store chain or maybe Patrick N. ect are the ones getting bent, but there again, they are the 9% that are a business for profit.

[Philsuma]

A Forum Sponsor is paying for a Banner Advertisement SPACE and visibility.

He is NOT paying for sales monopoly at any given show.

It is getting downright silly to think the Forums need to police and protect shows/venues and Sponsors.

The Forum Sponsor gets VERY fair value (at least here on Dart Den) for advertisment value - excellent bang for the buck. They cannot expect the Forum to police and sensor members transferring frogs at the shows the Sponsors attend - that's the responsibility of the show, not the Forum.

When I see 'meet you at Hamburg to transfer frogs' I take that to mean: I'm going to meet you inside AFTER I pay for admission. Admission = decent revenue for the show. no complaining there.

There IS such a thing as the 'Frog Police' but man o' man, their job is smuggling and thievery - big stuff. Not worrying about parking lot transfers and unpaid admission fees.

We have much bigger frogs to fry than to worry about the parking lots.

[Philsuma]

#1 - When someone posts saying they have frogs and can meet at the 'AAA Reptile Show'...I TAKE that to mean 1 or BOTH of those people who are transferring frogs are PAYING to attend the show to look around and possibly BUY other things inside.

I personally, think that the reverse - where BOTH of those froggers are NOT paying to go inside is very rare. Maybe less than 10% even!

If someone pays to enter the show...then BAM - argument solved. They can transfer all the frogs they want, in the parking lot, in the food court, in the bathroom, WHEREVER. They just supported the show with paying admittance.

[Philsuma]

1. Effective immediately, Dart Den.com reserves the right to delete or disallow any advertisement (sale, wanted or trade) placed on DD for any reason. No notice or reason needs to be given.

2. Any advertisement must include realistic information as to where the frogs came from. It can be importer or failing that knowledge, then it must be someone named - last owner.

There will not be another post of 'unknown or unnamed breeder or origin".