O. Pumilio Ensenada- Pics

[MichiganExotics]

i just wanna share couple pics enjoy

phone pic


better pic whit a 720p camera and 100w light

[sidney ferrell]

Estan hermosas juan! ponme en lista para ranitas!

[MichiganExotics]

yes they are sidney male call like crazy hoping for eggs soon

[Sherman]

Beautiful frogs.
Are they collected from a population that can handle it?

[MichiganExotics]

i don't have much info on this ones only what ray jr told me and what i dig here and there

[Sherman]

What distinguishes these from the Ryans that just came in? A subjective reading of Chris van der Lingen's morphguide?
Are they possibly from the same collection site?
Do you know where the other collected animals are now? That way you may share CB offspring.
Are quarantine procedures being properly followed?
Just because Panama doesn't properly manage their wildlife, doesn't mean we shouldn't.

[BluePumilio]

They are from different areas and look different. Several people have the Ensenadas now.

What is the point of quarantine if they are being kept seperate anyways? Just curious.

What distinguishes these from the Ryans that just came in? A subjective reading of Chris van der Lingen's morphguide?
Are they possibly from the same collection site?
Do you know where the other collected animals are now? That way you may share CB offspring.
Are quarantine procedures being properly followed?
Just because Panama doesn't properly manage their wildlife, doesn't mean we shouldn't.

[BcsTx]

They are from different areas and look different. Several people have the Ensenadas now.

What is the point of quarantine if they are being kept seperate anyways? Just curious.

What distinguishes these from the Ryans that just came in? A subjective reading of Chris van der Lingen's morphguide?
Are they possibly from the same collection site?
Do you know where the other collected animals are now? That way you may share CB offspring.
Are quarantine procedures being properly followed?
Just because Panama doesn't properly manage their wildlife, doesn't mean we shouldn't.

The root of the problem is with all the new imports, too many and too many questions....

[BluePumilio]

What questions? Both are known and mapped localities/morphs.

[MichiganExotics]

What distinguishes these from the Ryans?
Do you know where the other collected animals are now? That way you may share CB offspring.
Are quarantine procedures being properly followed?

i don't know what Ryans look like i did not got those
collected i guess Ensenada
yea like bluepumilio say few people include my self got pairs SR were heavy on males no many pairs
the quarantine was done by jr and now my self when im gonna release baby's i will do some tests so that way if some one get them they will get it even whit a health certificate :mrgreen:

[BluePumilio]

Personally, health certs are almost pointless with herps unless you are testing for chytrid/Rana/etc. Though, if they are breeding, that generally shows they are healthy.

What distinguishes these from the Ryans?
Do you know where the other collected animals are now? That way you may share CB offspring.
Are quarantine procedures being properly followed?

i don't know what Ryans look like i did not got those
collected i guess Ensenada
yea like bluepumilio say few people include my self got pairs SR were heavy on males no many pairs
the quarantine was done by jr and now my self when im gonna release baby's i will do some tests so that way if some one get them they will get it even whit a health certificate :mrgreen:

[MichiganExotics]

i was jk about the health certificate and u say about breeding well a week ago i found some eggs on the escudos tub so i guess they doing well

[BluePumilio]

These are Ryan

[MichiganExotics]

so Ensenadas have more big black spots and even stripes because the female i have just look like the male

[BluePumilio]

Yes, they are similar but most Ryans look more like Escudo, with a few having spots.

so Ensenadas have more big black spots and even stripes because the female i have just look like the male

[sidney ferrell]

I feel bad for escudos.....they have now been put to shame by these two new morphs....but that's my opinion. I think Ray jr did good on these morphs... especially the large spotted ryans.

[MichiganExotics]

so the big question its answer as Darwin how its to many variations of animals. all depends the environment and food.turning to a new different species

[MichiganExotics]

I feel bad for escudos.....tgey have now been put to shame by these two new morphs....but tgats my opinion. I think jr did good on tgese morphs... especially the large spotted ryans.

actually Ensenadas look to have bigger spots and stripes

[Sherman]

They are from different areas and look different. Several people have the Ensenadas now.

What is the point of quarantine if they are being kept seperate anyways? Just curious.

They sure do not look distiguishable in these photos. Have you been to any of these popluations in the wild? or have you seen a group of photos that are representative of what you can find in one single area that is not limited to 6-8 photos? The diversity of color and pattern is off the charts.
No one can visually tell a frogs locality.

The quarantine question did not imply that they would be mixed. It was to ensure that the animals were getting proper care to prevent unnecessary die off.

The root of the problem is with all the new imports, too many and too many questions....

I would suggest that there are not enough of the right questions being asked.

What questions? Both are known and mapped localities/morphs.

This I do not debate. My question is: How are you deciding upon the origins of these frogs? When two "localities" come in together that look alike, and are seperated based on subtle and subjective color and pattern variation, it is not hard to believe that they were collected from the same spot.

To be clear, I have no problem with the sustainable importation of O. pumilio to feed the ravenous demand. I do have a problem with these "shopping list" importations, where certain phenotypes are targeted with no oversight as to where these particular animals are coming from or the consequences of their removal.
I was fortunate enough to be able to take a guided tour of the Bocas del Toro with Chris van der Lingen. He specifically asked us not to share certain photographs of populations because he was afraid that smugglers/importers would wipe out the populations. These frogs resemble one of these tiny populations. If you can not be certain of exactly where those frogs are from, then you can not definitively claim that they are not from an at risk population.

There are better ways to do this, and they start with not purchasing this stuff.

Beautiful frogs.
Are they collected from a population that can handle it?

[BluePumilio]

I have not seen the animals in the wild, I did see EVERY one of the Ryans and Ensenadas that came in and they look different. The information comes from the exporter, I have no reason to doubt it. I can not be exactly sure of the localities without collecting them myself.

Some people will never be happy.

I would think that habitat destruction and not collection for the trade is what I would be worried about. Just a personal thought.

Are you saying the frogs in the pics come look like a locality from the Bocas del Toro and not where they are saying it came from?

I personally think you BEST thing you can do for a newly imported specimen is to release it into an established viv, not keep it under quarantine conditions. My personal experience makes me think this. I have much fewer loses.

How about you just label them all are Valliente Peninsula and pay no attention to Ryan, Ensenada, Melci, etc?