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Glad to share the info Kris! I found out about another keeper that lost two young females just after they reached breeding age so I'm a bit nervous about my two. I have an email out to Martin to see if he has encountered this before.
I don't think there is much you can do; mine dropped 10 within the first few days, then they slowed down (note the cluster up front really close together). I have kept them drier with more active venting through my hoods (fan exhaust). They get misted 4 times a day for 30 to 40 seconds. I will try to remember to drop a data logger into their enclosure today to give you an idea of what the current temp and RH are. They are fed daily, melanogaster and hydei. Repashy Calcium Plus daily, with Repashy Vit A once a week.
It would be interesting to compare sizes. These guys look puny to me now that I have that Robertus pair. They do seem smaller than what I would have expected though. My females are about 35 mm but different weights:
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I bet the male is 30 mm, but I have not been able to measure him. From what I have read, their size range is up to 40 mm, so we could have more diminutive frogs, but overall I agree, they seem small. It sounds like UE's starting to ship animals again to those on their wait list, so it will be interesting to see how those turn out.
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I am starting to suspect one female is producing good clutches and the second is not. I noticed two small, scattered clutches were deposited in late July a few days apart. They were not a clustered deposit - they were more haphazard in how they were dropped. Those two clutches yielded no tadpoles. There was a break in deposits, then earlier this week a nice 4 egg cluster was deposited. Today I located two sets of three eggs again deposited much differently - nearly a line of eggs spanning two leaves - again haphazardly deposited. I'll see if this trend continues, and if I can determine which female is depositing each type of clutch. Here's an updated deposit history:
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The oldest tadpole won't be a black ghost - you can see the yellow crest starting to develop:
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Now for some photos of the parents. They spend their evenings on the viv floor foraging in the shadows. Here are some shots from tonight:
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More shots of the little guy:
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Almost there.....
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:lol: No kidding right? This guy is solid...got some meat on those legs already.
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I transferred the froglet to a 20L grow out and he crawled out of the pond on 8/23. It made its first appearance today, emerging from the leaf litter for a few hops around the tank. Here are some images from its trip in and out of the pond a few days ago:
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I'll snap more pics in a few days when its out more frequently...
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Out for a bit today! Beautiful little froglet with a big crest.
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I've contnued to track clutch size and yield over time. The pattern I noticed on the last update has continued, with two different types of deposits occurring a few days apart, one with a tight cluster of eggs that yields 100% successful tads, and a second with scattered eggs that yields nearly 0% tads. I suspect these are clutches from different females, but I have not been able to figure out which females are depositing - the male spends most of the time with the clutches by the time I find them.
I'm still tinkering with the plot - not sure if this is easier to read or not. Higher gray area represents lower yields. The white bar that breaks the gray area represents a clutch that was scattered. I'm seeing back to back deposits aligning more closely together, which looks like the females aligning deposits. Right now they appear to be about 11 to 14 days apart, with ~4 eggs per deposit. The right side of the plot is a little misleading - those clutches are still in development so I don't have yields for them yet, so their gray area is large right now. However, I'd say they are tracking the same, with the white gap clutches not looking viable, and the clustered clutch looks good:
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I suspect the dominant female "got it right" and the smaller female is still working things out. I have not witnessed any aggression after a few wrestling matches when they started breeding - all three are plump and eating well. The third female in isolation is putting on weight.
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Finally got around to adding a couple cocohuts. I'll see if the will move to a Petri dish now. I put one on each side of the viv floor in the shadows. You can't see them normally:
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Here are some close ups:
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And here's one of the ladies checking things out.
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Seems like they like it! It was interesting to see the three interacting around the coconut. Interestingly they picked the larger cocohut with the bigger petri dish. There's a smaller lorenzo sized hut and dish on the other side of the viv.
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The hut worked...
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I'm wondering if both females deposited. It looked like two groupings - I'll pull the clutch later today and take a look.
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Well here's a crummy picture from yesterday - tried to snap a photo before they went scurrying out of water:
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Pretty cool seeing them all morph out within a day of each other.
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Figured it was time for an update for my favorite little frogs  Kind of a potluck of Lorenzo updates...
My 1.2 has been doing well - three more froglets OOW last week! I'm morphing them out in group tanks - 2.5g with Turface as a substrate, leaf litter tossed in, and pieces of cork bark as floating rafts for them to climb out on. It's been working well for me so far. I'm going to use the same approach for my Robertus. Here are some froglets making the climb out:
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Jumping to the adults...I pulled this composite together of all the adult animals in my collection. Based on my communication with other Lorenzo keepers, it does appear that males have more prominent crests and more vibrant blues while females are darker with more subdued blues and much smaller crests (including black ghosts which have no yellow). This will be interesting to see as we see more animals grow out:
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And I saved the best for last This is (IMHO) the most critical clutch in my collection at the moment....
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It's the first clutch to produce wrigglers from a 2.0 UE Lorenzo grouping with a 0.1 Stewart Lorenzo. I am very excited! I will let things settle in a bit before shifting animals around further, but I hope to continue to pair/group "less related" Lorenzos as my collection grows.
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The two UE x Stewart eggs hatched and the tads are doing OK so far. They are pretty tiny so I'm keeping an eye on them. They seem to need more time in their dish just after hatch than other tincs. I've started taking their dishes and floating them in the grow out tanks, tilting them slightly so they can swim out when they are ready. This shot is of one that did swim out, while the second is still hanging out in the dish directly above the first.
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I've had another set of froglets morph out. I just check the floating cork bark in their morph out tanks and every once in a while you see this:
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Then I grab a cup and fish them out:
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And into the first stage grow out where they stay for about a month - it's heavily seeded with springtails, and I try and keep larger froglets out of there so the tiny ones don't have competition for small food items:
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I made some shifts in the Lorenzo groupings last week and they seem to be going well. I'm trying to determine the best way to track all this, so here's what I came up with. The original two groupings were:
- 2014A-1ss.2ss – 1.2 Stewart (UE x Gagliardo) animals acquired 2013
- 2014B-2ue.1ss – 2.1 UE 2009 males with Stewart 2013 female
I Split the groups up into three pairs, the first step in my plan to get to four "non-sibling" groups after I grow out another group of 4 UE animals that I should get next week. Here are the new groupings:
- 2015C-1ss.1ss – original A group reduced to 1.1 Stewart animals
- 2015D-1ue.1ss – original B group reduced to 1.1 UE male with Stewart female
- 2015E-1ue.1ss – dominant UE male paired with dominant SS female
So far I've gotten eggs from 2015C and breeding behavior from 2015D and 2015E. Here's 2015C's clutch with the subordinate SS female...the interesting thing about this clutch is it lines up with my past observations - the dominant female deposited tight clusters of eggs while the subordinate female scattered them:
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This is the female from 2015D:
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And here's the pairing of 2015E, the dominant animals from my adult Lorenzo:
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My next shift is likely a year away. Once the UE animals are grown out I'll break up 2015C which should yield two more non-sibling pair barring a 4.0 or 0.4 from UE. So there you have it .
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I was on the UE Lorenzo wait list for quite a while, so I was happy to receive 4 juveniles today. This should allow me to get to the 4 non-sibling pairings I was looking for so I'm quite excited!
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Here's UE2 in the grow out viv...small crest - will be interesting to see if it turns out to be a female:
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Nice... Just make some room for my froglets ;-)
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Haha. The holotypic fants are tempting! For little frogs these Lorenzo are dominating my square footage . I'm pulling all my froglets tonight to transfer to new grow outs - I'll try to get a shot of all of them in a tub at once - should be a pretty cool pic....
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Started my sort tonight from the group grow outs. The four big guys were getting a bit too much food (you can see a few of the smaller skinny ones) so I'm moving around stock. The first group should be set to ship next week! All these are my 2014A group offspring. I have a few 2014B tads, and hopefully the C, D, and E pairings will get going soon!
For scale, this is a sterilite shoe box container. The largest froglets are nearing 6 months OOW. The smallest are less than a month.
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joneill809 Wrote:- 2015C-1ss.1ss – original A group reduced to 1.1 Stewart animals
- 2015D-1ue.1ss – original B group reduced to 1.1 UE male with Stewart female
- 2015E-1ue.1ss – dominant UE male paired with dominant SS female
Good news. Developing eggs from 2015C, a clutch in the hut today from 2015D, and a tad and another single egg clutch from 2015E. So all three pairings are looking good! I did spin up another thread on managing a morph with limited founding stock here that I hoped could become a more generic discussion:
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