Appropriate age to post froglets for sale

[Rusty_Shackleford]

I've recently seen a couple of disturbing ads. One with imitator froglets for sale 5 days oow, and another with auratus froglets for sale 3 weeks oow. To me these froglets are too young to be shipped. Most likely the breeder wants to make some quick bucks. How can one even assure a perspective buyer of the overall health and vitality of these froglets?
Any thoughts?

[Philsuma]

'Too soon' isn't a fixed date, but the hobby should be able to arrive at a decent approx. I've heard 4 months OOW being used for pumilio. 1 month may be good for Tincs / Tinc 'types" ?

Gotta protect the newbs here...

[Rusty_Shackleford]

This is true, and charging the same amount of money for a 5 day or 3 week old froglet vs a 3 month old froglet can't be right either. I prefer to keep my froglets for a few months and make sure they are eating, growing, developing normally. I can guarantee they will arrive alive and in good condition through the shipping process. Can the same be said for a 5 day old froglet?

[frogfreak]

This is true, and charging the same amount of money for a 5 day or 3 week old froglet vs a 3 month old froglet can't be right either. I prefer to keep my froglets for a few months and make sure they are eating, growing, developing normally. I can guarantee they will arrive alive and in good condition through the shipping process. Can the same be said for a 5 day old froglet?

I keep mine until at least 3 months too. There's also a huge difference in how the frog acts at 3 months vs 3 weeks. At 3 months they're at the glass waiting to be fed, at 3 weeks still unsure of you. Which one would you rather buy?

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Glenn, I know which one I would rather buy. I also know I would not buy anything from someone who offers up 3 week old froglets for sale. I can only think of one instance in which it might be acceptable, at a frog meet, when you're driving right home with the 3 week old froglet. Even then kinda sketchy. Shipping a 3 week old froglet, absolutely not. But there must be people buying them or they wouldn't be up for sale.
Then again there are people selling tads for $10 each, hell I bet I could sell eggs for $5 each...I better go check my coco huts, I bet I have at least $100 sitting there now!! Well that and my newly hatched plan to sell mites for nemertean control, I'll be rich in no time!! :wink:

[joneill809]

Personally I like buying juvenile tincs that can easily take any common fly up to hydei - usually 4 to 6 months OOW. I was told my initial frogs were 3 to 5 months OOW when I purchased them in person, but now after raising my own they were likely <4 weeks on one and <8 weeks on another. Both were fine but man were they tiny.

That brings up another aspect - newbs may read about what age frog to purchase, but even in person, without experience it is hard to judge. I'm thinking another photo journal of froglet development along with a weekly weigh in may be very beneficial to the hobby. I may give that a crack in a few weeks when a new froglet emerges.

Do we have rules of thumb for the newb? It seems like for tincs if the head and body are about the same diameter they are too young. In my opinion I want to see a well developed torso that is larger than the head. I'd also like to see them struggle to fit on a US nickle. Thoughts? Other observations?

[RichFrye]

I like shipping sexed obligates.
It guarantees they are old enough to ship and who wants to end up with all females or sexed male heavy?
Unless there are some magical techniques to growing massive froglets, and one guy would profess there are, 3 months is too young to ship any obligate I have worked with. Why not wait a few more months until those giants are calling and a few more until they lay?

[BcsTx]

I like shipping sexed obligates.
It guarantees they are old enough to ship and who wants to end up with all females or sexed male heavy?
Unless there are some magical techniques to growing massive froglets, and one guy would profess there are, 3 months is too young to ship any obligate I have worked with. Why not wait a few more months until those giants are calling and a few more until they lay?

I agree with this, even for local buyers I wait till I see calling and courting.

Maybe individuals who are selling at 3 months means more will buy later (or buy more) to get a pair...

[markpulawski]

For me it is has worked well to sell Pumilio and Dendrobates at the 3 month mark, though I have sold younger when handing off to someone in person (my Last Cemetary's were huge at 2 months when I handed them off to Chris Kennedy and 1 is now calling at 4.5 months). Thumbs which mature so quickly are easily ready at the 2 month mark, I recently had some Flavovitattus shipped to me at 1 month, worried more about shipping in heat than size of the froglet, at 10 weeks old they are now calling.
I don't think either of those folks know what they are doing Jon, 3 weeks may be OK if those frogs are round but shipping them for a Dendrobates is too young. Tads however is another story, if done right is far better than shipping froglets, other than water chemistry tads do not stress from shipping the way a frog can. There was actually a study done in England (I am sure not scientific) but froglets and tads were shipped from the same parents on several occasions with different species and different breeders and in all instances the tads that were shipped grew into bigger adults, maybe coincidence but maybe not. But there are an awful lot of inexperienced folks around these days and to trust that scenario I would have to know the breeder well.

[cbreon]

I like to wait until at least 4-5 months to sell Pumilio, it seems like the 4 month mark is when they really begin to stabilize. Ideally, I would hold them to sexable ages, but unfortunately I don't have the room to do that if I have 8,9,10 groups pumping out froglets. I do hold some back, but I can't do it for everything.