Ranitomeya vanzolinii "line" information

[thedude]

The government saw fit to place them into a hobbyist's care - Legal

They were declared thru CITES and sent to the U.S - Legal

My other thread deals with how wrong I feel it is to be 100% either 'black or white'.

If you feel so strongly about the Vanzo sitch.....then you MUST be upset about Galacts, Terribs, Vittatus, A whole bunch o' tincs...ect....ect....

I didn't say they weren't considered legal here or in Europe now did I? I said they were from smuggled origins, which they are. you say they aren't, even though they are. And yes I do feel as though galacts, terribilis, and a slough of others are from smuggled origins. Because they are.

The other thread had very little information pertaining to this issue, in this thread. Hence why I asked it here.

[Philsuma]

Let's call them what they are, or should be known as....'Grey area animals'. They are 100% Legal to own but have Moral associations to those who decide to keep them.

I've only just started the other thread, so please bear with me as its going to a long one.

I misunderstood the direction of your thoughts then. If you want me to acknowledge that the E.U vanzolinii come from smuggled origins, then yes, I agree with that. I thought we were heading right into whether we could legally own them and the moral issues with same.

[Philsuma]

hmmm...seems to now be an effort to make ALL 'European' / E.U / EURO animals...bad to own.

[dtfleming]

I don't see why if they are imported legally. I understand the issue with some if the frogs that Europe has.

[Philsuma]

It's def a 'Grey Area' animal,but man, we have to pick and choose our battles, and there are a few issues that I would absolutely put before attacking EURO Vanzolinii.

[dtfleming]

I find it interesting that this came up because of seller listing them as UE instead of EU. I hope that it was an honest mistake or is it that people assume and do not verify or make an attempt on their lines?

[Philsuma]

Someone came up with using the acronym EURO instead of EU, which is way too confusing when talking about Understory Enterprises, or U.E.

so...

I also propose = 'Euro' for all European imports. Way easier than EU.

[Philsuma]

I don't know how to take that. The vanzolinii were smuggled into Europe. That's where they came from. Smuggling.

So how are they not smuggled? Feel free to answer in the other thread...

I think the Vanzolinii were initially smuggled into Europe, then remanded to someone to care for them -possibly as 'evidence' or some other role, and then F1 OFFSPRING were taken and sent out to other people and then made their way into the EU hobby and ultimately into the U.S Hobby - Sean Stewart legally imported them @ 2010

So here we have a 'grey' area in my book.

Technically a smuggled animal

Producing CB offspring

Now legally exported

is that correct? Doe anyone have different information ?

[Brian317]

I just had a quick question. The only legal import into the US of Vanzos were all female....right? I think I remember seeing this.

I talked to a person recently who had vanzo offspring for sale and he told me they were understory lineage. To my knowledge, this cannot be correct and that "all" the Vanzos in the US are from European lineage (Butt, etc)...but still EU. Is that safe to say?

Please correct me if I am way off in left field

I agree, the Vanzo ordeal is a very grey area in the hobby.

[Philsuma]

I think you are correct.

Sean Stewart imported a number of EURO Vanzo's @ 2010 as well.

[Philsuma]

Current prices are less than 50.00 each, for vanzo froglets.

I really doubt that a 'lot' of people are going to value the Understory imports much more. Just the way it is, I'm afraid...

[cbreon]

Yeah, I just saw 3/$100, that's a really cool frog for $33...same person had 5/$125 Regina thats really cheap too.

[zonz540]

Yeah, I just saw 3/$100, that's a really cool frog for $33...same person had 5/$125 Regina thats really cheap too.

That's really cheap. Where were these people when I was looking for additional Vanzos three months ago? Seems like everybody wanted $100+ when I was looking around...

[afterdark]

They are going for $135 here in Canada currently.

[Philsuma]

Another 'Moral problem' frog...