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Should I have had a fecal test done ?
#1
Its been less than a year since I started my fascination with these frogs. I first started out with a 10 gallon tank and quickly upgraded to a 90 gallon tank. It took me and my boyfriend 3 months to build it using Black Jungles vivarium concept. For beginners I think it turned alright. We have three water features a pond and all live plants. Oh yeah and some fish too. (Tetras) Well about my dart frogs were do I begin. Alright here it goes at this moment I only have one frog and I started out with nine. I had;
2 Dendrobates Galactonotus
2 Dendrobates Leucomelas
2 Phyllobates Terribilis
2 Phyllobates Vittatus
1 Dendrobates Auratus
Since I can't turn back time and up until I joined this website I didn't know about having a fecal test done my lonely Leucomela is my concern. Should I have a fecal test done on him? What other things should I test for? Other information that maybe useful in helping me determine what I might be doing wrong. I keep my tank temperature between 70 - 80 the humidity high and I use Reverse Osmosis water with RO Rite. I rotate dust my fruit flies with Rep-Cal Calcium w/ Vit. D3 and Dendrocare vitamin mineral. Should I be concerned with it being something to do with the tank? Any suggestions questions or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Myrna

p.s. I have pictures of my frogs and tank under my photo gallery if interested in looking. :lol:
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#2
So you're saying that you lost all of the frogs that you listed? Are you also saying that you kept all of them together in the same tank? I don't think that a 90 is nearly big enough to house that many different species/genus. Generally keeping more than one species per tank is asking for trouble. Even if it turns out that all your frogs were parasite free when they went in (unlikely), there was still a high likelihood that one or more pairs would cause significant stress to another.
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#3
Yep all but one lonely Leuc. And yes I was keeping all of them in the same tank. I was under the impression that our 90 gallon tank was big enough to house all of them. I was also told that the frogs that I had could mix well together because they are "community" frogs. But was never mentioned anything about parasites or fecal tests.
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#4
There is a big difference between community frogs and mixing. While all of the frogs you listed can be kept with more than two members of their respective species, putting them all together in a single enclosure adds many more factors into the equation. Some are more bold/agressive than others as a species, and this can lead to overcompetition for food items, even though there may be enough food in the tank.
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#5
Interesting, thanks for the insight. So now that I am beginning to have a better understanding of some the of the mistakes that I have made, what would you recommend for a 90 gallon tank? And what do I do about my Leuc? Should I order tests for him? What about the tank? I don't want to make the same mistakes.
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#6
Definitely test the leuc for parasites. Dr. Frye of Fryebrothersfrogs.com is who I would reccomend. However, if the Leuc tests positive for something substantial, it will mean that the entire tank is contaminated and will need to be sterilized before using again.
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#7
Will do, I will try and contact the Frye brothers. Thanks so much for all the help. I will keep you posted with the results.
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#8
I for one am tired of all these dumbASS people who try to mix species. It doesn't work. Read all of the failed attempts from the past and still mix. It rarely works and when it does it is carefully mixed using compatible species. OOoo Lets mix all the pretty colors together. I have read post after post about these noobs mixing 18 different kinds of dart frogs and wondering where they went wrong. It is the third time this week I have posted on the topic. Stay in the F@#@ing cornsnake hobby, you are too dumb for dart frogs.
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#9
Wow, you really need some anger management. I suggest you start getting used to these kinds of mistakes since everyday there are new people joining this hobby. Don’t forget everyone starts as a beginner and even the experts don’t have it all figured out. I am sure someone has helped you along the way with your problems.
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#10
Well v_traves,

nothing like making your flaming debut.

Peace out,
Kenny
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#11
After you do the fecal tests and everything turns out ok(unlikely but best case scenario) I would add only leucomelas and have a huge group of them in that 90 gallon. If the leuc turns up dirty, sterilize the tank and startover, while quarantining the leuc and treating the parasite. Again,, go with a huge group of leucs. Or put that leuc back in the 10 gallon, sterelize(by sterelize, I mean start over) the 90 and put a group of some other species.

I know petstores mix their frogs and thats probably where you got the idea that it was ok to put them all in the same tank..
Dont listen to v_traves.... Keep with it let us know how the fecals go.
-Frank
[Image: Frank4.jpg] [Image: frank1.jpg]
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#12
Yeah, please don't listen to me. Go ahead and put some galacs, pumilio, imitator in a five gallon bucket and let me know how it goes. It isn't about beginner mistakes. Having the humidity too low or temperature too high is a beginner mistake, mixing frog species and even genera is just not paying attention to what everyone already knows.
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#13

Myrna,
sounds like you have learned a very difficult, very expensive lesson.
Hind sight is 20/20. Now all we can do if offer some reccomendations on what you should have done so not to repeat the situation.
You need to keep in mind that frogs, like people have "personalities",not all frogs will get along together, just like people, so it is not a good idea to mix different species. Then you get into the situation where even though they are the same species, only one male and one female would be recommended like with azureus, or most tincs
It is always recommended to quarantine newly accquired frogs at least for 30 days on captive breed and 90 days on imported/ farm raised. During this time you can look for signs of trouble, observe their food intake, behavior, and basically "get to know your frogs". It is much easier to treat a frog if need be if it is in quarantine. Also if you should have a frog that is having problems you have not totally contaminated your tank with this sick frog putting other frogs at risk.

I would strongly recommend tearing the tank down and sterilizing everything that you can, what can't be sterilized needs to be replaced. Otherwise you will run the risk of putting healthy frogs in a contaminated environment. While you are working on the tank you could get a fecal on the leucomelas, and if need be treat the leucomelas accordingly.

I think a group of leucomelas in that size tank would make a very striking display.

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#14
v_traves Wrote:Yeah, please don't listen to me. Go ahead and put some galacs, pumilio, imitator in a five gallon bucket and let me know how it goes. It isn't about beginner mistakes. Having the humidity too low or temperature too high is a beginner mistake, mixing frog species and even genera is just not paying attention to what everyone already knows.

you act like every pet owner in the world reads all the info on the internet before they get an animal. stop being so arrogant and accept that not everybody in the world is a genious like you are. some people don't even think of searching sites like google about mixing stuff, or don't even have a pc or internet access to go online and find info. some people think the petshop owners know everything about what they sell, when they usually don't. some people think Community means mroe then one species because thats what it means in the fish industry.

i thought it was ok aswell, but luckily i was told it wasen't good when i was talking about getting them in a different site so i wont be mixing them once i do get them.
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#15
Thanks everyone for you post. I will use all the good advice and recommendations to make better decisions for the future of my frogs. As I said before "even the experts don’t have it all figured out" and it was I who was guided by one. Though like Cindy said "sounds like you have learned a very difficult, very expensive lesson" I am not bitter I only look at this as a way to learn and hopefully someday teach others not to make the same mistakes.
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#16
zaroba Wrote:you act like every pet owner in the world reads all the info on the internet before they get an animal.

I think it is critical for new "pet" owners to learn everything there is to know about their critter BEFORE purchase. I have watched so MANY animals being sent to their deaths because of unknowledgeable owners. I think it is irresponsible for someone to go to a pet store and purchase ANY animal without at least having a basic idea of their requirements and needs. I research any animal I intend on keeping as a "pet". I read Bulletin Boards and read through articles for over a year before I decided on getting my first dart frogs.
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#17
Thanks Travis for educating me. Believe it or not I did a lot of research before beginning my hobby. I started out reading about them on the internet, then I purchased my first book Professional Breeders Series at the White Plains Reptile show and lastly I communicated numerous of times with the guys from Black Jungle who I would visit practically every weekend. Every decision that I made was guided by research and by professional advice. That is before I came across this website. Now why I was given all this bad advice? and why when I began having problems no one mentioned nothing about a fecal test? is beyond me. All I know is that I am now in the right place, getting the right advice and I am thankful for that alone.
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#18
yea, i do that as well. that's why I'm here - to learn about dart frogs. I won't have my viv done for another two or three months, so am learning about dart frogs in the meantime before I get them.


but like i said, have consideration for other people who might not think of doing stuff like that instead of visiting a forum and flaming them like your the god of all reptiles.

not many people actually think things out before doing them or they just take the easy way out. a beginner wouldn't know ANYTHING about owning a reptile until they were told about it, that includes mixing stuff when labelled with a misleading 'community' description.

sure...they could come around and look up the info, but not many people actually take the time to search for info. go to any forum and search for all the questions people ask on it. how many of those question posts do you think are repeats? how many of those posters do you think even thought of searching the forum or just using google or some other search engine?

also take into account that a person wont look up info on things like mixing species if they don't even know its not to be done. There isn't exactly a document about DOs and DON'T about pdf keeping that gets circulated with every pdf sale throughout the world.
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#19
i have Epipedobates tricolor santa isabel froglets that are just coming out of the water. but some of them appear to be missing one of their front arms. they still have their tails, and are out of the water climbing slowly. does anyone know any reasons for this? and will they grow arms in while on land?
Thanks, Charlotte
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#20
cdobiecki Wrote:i have Epipedobates tricolor santa isabel froglets that are just coming out of the water. but some of them appear to be missing one of their front arms. they still have their tails, and are out of the water climbing slowly. does anyone know any reasons for this? and will they grow arms in while on land?

Missing an arm ? SLS usually presents itself with a front arm that is "withered" looking and quite unusable, but still very much present.

Missing limbs almost seem like a genetic defect or something caused by a chemical ect.

SLS or "missing limbs" will not regrow or return to any level of functionality.

Anyway....back to the OP and Topic at hand. Fecals are important IMO.
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