Oophaga pumilio import and non site specific

[BluePumilio]

He certainly has an interesting personality if you ever dealt with him.

Rich,

I think you should explain your concerns in person to Ray jr over at Strictly and tell him that you know how he should be running his business. Let me know when you get out of the hospital afterwards.

So I am to interpret this as the person who is responsible for importing all the pums ( Ray JR.) is SO unstable that if I "explain my concerns in person" I will end up in the hospital.
That's a rave review for someone you guys are all getting your pums from. Good on ya Roman.

What in god's name would happen if I expalin something more complicated than quarantine? Death? I'm really scared now.

[RichFrye]

So, add fraud to Sidney's list of lies and bad doing.
Congrats Sidney.


Justin is Justin. Sidney lies again. Anybody noticing a pattern here?

Here's how it's relevant - if you are indeed Tobias...

That would mean you have perpetrated a fraud on me. It would also mean that all the energy and time and effort that I put worth trying to help this hobby and many people...you would have taken all of that, crumbled it, balled it up and threw it directly into my face.

That's what it would mean....for starters.

and I honestly hope it is NOT true.

...and , what if Sidney has done the same Phil?

Well...Sidney DOES indeed have a second account here. At least 3 other people do as well, all technically in violation of the TOS here. What would make it different, is that Justin - Blue pumilio sent me documents and phone calls for his proof of who he says he is, i.e not Tobias. Going those extra steps in furtherance of a lie/ fraud is Much more egregious in scope and intent, in my opinion.

[RichFrye]

Obviously I have not dealt with him. I am alive , hospital free and well...
I've been told my personality is 'interesting ' to.

He certainly has an interesting personality if you ever dealt with him.

Rich,

I think you should explain your concerns in person to Ray jr over at Strictly and tell him that you know how he should be running his business. Let me know when you get out of the hospital afterwards.

So I am to interpret this as the person who is responsible for importing all the pums ( Ray JR.) is SO unstable that if I "explain my concerns in person" I will end up in the hospital.
That's a rave review for someone you guys are all getting your pums from. Good on ya Roman.

What in god's name would happen if I expalin something more complicated than quarantine? Death? I'm really scared now.

[BluePumilio]

Can we please make it said that there is no supporting evidence to say I'm no one except who I say I am? If there is, can we put that out in the open so I can be aware of it?

Here's how it's relevant - if you are indeed Tobias...

That would mean you have perpetrated a fraud on me. It would also mean that all the energy and time and effort that I put worth trying to help this hobby and many people...you would have taken all of that, crumbled it, balled it up and threw it directly into my face.

That's what it would mean....for starters.

and I honestly hope it is NOT true.

...and , what if Sidney has done the same Phil?

Well...Sidney DOES indeed have a second account here. At least 3 other people do as well, all technically in violation of the TOS here. What would make it different, is that Justin - Blue pumilio sent me documents and phone calls for his proof of who he says he is, i.e not Tobias. Going those extra steps in furtherance of a lie/ fraud is Much more egregious in scope and intent, in my opinion.

[RichFrye]

Also, what Sidney did with his sock puppet (which he did not admit to when I asked) was attempt to make it look as if someone not Sidney was able to back Sidney's lies. His lies on BUSINESS dealings. FRAUD.
What it really did was point out how bad he writes and drew immediate attention to his TXfrogfart handle. He's not smart, as I have pointed out.

Here's how it's relevant - if you are indeed Tobias...

That would mean you have perpetrated a fraud on me. It would also mean that all the energy and time and effort that I put worth trying to help this hobby and many people...you would have taken all of that, crumbled it, balled it up and threw it directly into my face.

That's what it would mean....for starters.

and I honestly hope it is NOT true.

...and , what if Sidney has done the same Phil?

Well...Sidney DOES indeed have a second account here. At least 3 other people do as well, all technically in violation of the TOS here. What would make it different, is that Justin - Blue pumilio sent me documents and phone calls for his proof of who he says he is, i.e not Tobias. Going those extra steps in furtherance of a lie/ fraud is Much more egregious in scope and intent, in my opinion.

[Philsuma]

I"M SPARTICUS.....oops I meant Mark P. Maybe a change of thread title would be appropriate, how about............. Pumilio and whole lot of other shit....gotta admit it's got a nice ring to it.
It is entertaining as hell but honestly Phil I wonder if it is ultimately healthy for your site?

I dunno Mark...a good bit of info and relevance comes out of all this. Think of it as a spotlight cast on people. The light reveals bad business ventures and character. Nothing good was ever easy and clean and tidy, right ?

Some good will come of all this - information, knowledge. I fully believe it. I'm not afraid of "losing members or even Sponsors". I was threatened 8 months ago and told this site wasn't going to make it by 4 different people -some claiming to be "big shots" and yet here we are .Growing and growing.

I'm like a marathon runner. I'm going to win the race. I'm going to get to bottom of something, that I put my mind to. We are going to grow this site and advance this hobby and "do better". This site is not going to be superficial and fluffy. The "big-boy topics" are going to be found here. Check out the feedback forum. NO other Dart Frog forum has that. That's one reason I bought this site and decided that I wanted to make sure people didn't get continually rolled over. Other Forums saw how valuable a service we have here have tried to copy a bit of it, and we are responsible for that too - other sites having to improve.

So I can't say I agree with saying there is "shit" here on this thread. Some posts are unsavory, but like I said above...ya can't have the big-boy info with gettin' a little dirty.

[Mantisdragon91]

Rich,

I think you should explain your concerns in person to Ray jr over at Strictly and tell him that you know how he should be running his business. Let me know when you get out of the hospital afterwards.

So I am to interpret this as the person who is responsible for importing all the pums ( Ray JR.) is SO unstable that if I "explain my concerns in person" I will end up in the hospital.
That's a rave review for someone you guys are all getting your pums from. Good on ya Roman.

What in god's name would happen if I expalin something more complicated than quarantine? Death? I'm really scared now.

Let's just say that your personalities wouln't mesh well and leave it at that. He doesn't have much tolerance for smug know it all telling him how to run his business. Throw in the fact that you tend to get abrasive rather quickly and sparks and fist will fly. On the bright side our hobby has a history of buying pums from unstable individuals, after all look how many folks purchase from you :lol:

[Philsuma]

ok....I'll be locking this soon, as it's almost run it's course and is starting to repeat itself.

To recap:

See this notice: news-from-the-den-f1/the-current-pumilio-import-fuss-and-fallout-t5937.html

[Philsuma]

alright...lets open this back up, as there are a lot of newly imported Oophaga pumilio that have been coming in for the past 1/2 a year.

There are still some people asking for help / morph guide help in 'locale-izing' their frogs. This can't be done folks. You cannot hold your pumilio up to a photo or website and say 'THIS is where my frog came from" Impossible.

Be content with importer and import year. I like to further go with an import month if possible, but I think 'year' is accepted and ok for what we are working worth / best we got going.

[BluePumilio]

There are still some people asking for help / morph guide help in 'locale-izing' their frogs. This can't be done folks. You cannot hold your pumilio up to a photo or website and say 'THIS is where my frog came from" Impossible.

Be content with importer and import year. I like to further go with an import month if possible, but I think 'year' is accepted and ok for what we are working worth / best we got going.

But you can, especially when the collection locations are made by someone, someone looking for a specific animal. These things are not being done blindly anymore.

[Philsuma]

prove it...lets see the documentation.

[heyduke]

I don't understand why documentation isn't or is refused to be provided. What is the harm in doing so?


Sean

[BluePumilio]

I have nothing to prove, but I do find it amazing they are able to find all these "new" and previously described/known locales/morphs if they didn't know where to look. I mean, if the animals didn't seem to match up with the localities, I'd have doubt. You can split hairs all you want, but it's clear they are collecting animals based on locality information. Call it what you want and I'll do the same.

As for documentation, do où really expect the exporter to provide anything other then what they already are? Seems a bit foolish. They have no incentive and many reasons not too.

prove it...lets see the documentation.

[Philsuma]

The exporter cannot provide GPS data for many reasons:

1. The don't know it and don't care.

2. The location where the pumilio were scooped up is private/government or other 'no traspasar' and again..see #1

It has been proven that site specific animals can command 2 to 3 times as much $$$

and before anyone asks. I expect anyone who cares enough (as they should) about these frogs to do the SAME thing to Rich F - Ask questions until they are satisifed with the answers

and...I have no problem with sustainable imports of pumilio from Nico, C.R or Panama, until JP, Ray or Justin Y. tell me otherwise. I have obtained imported pumilio before and will do so very soon here again.

What I will not do, is try to tell people that 'there is locale info", when we just don't have anything close to proof of that.

[heyduke]

I just don't see the harm in giving out the location data. And I think there would be incentive. They could ask more money with it.

What am I missing here?


Sean

[BluePumilio]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I think these issues have been beatened to death. It'd be nice too see something new/productive here. Just some thoughts.

The exporter cannot provide GPS data for many reasons:

1. The don't know it and don't care.

2. The location where the pumilio were scooped up is private/government or other 'no traspasar' and again..see #1

It has been proven that site specific animals can command 2 to 3 times as much $$$

and before anyone asks. I expect anyone who cares enough (as they should) about these frogs to do the SAME thing to Rich F - Ask questions until they are satisifed with the answers

and...I have no problem with sustainable imports of pumilio from Nico, C.R or Panama, until JP, Ray or Justin Y. tell me otherwise. I have obtained imported pumilio before and will do so very soon here again.

What I will not do, is try to tell people that 'there is locale info", when we just don't have anything close to proof of that.

[RichFrye]

...

and before anyone asks. I expect anyone who cares enough (as they should) about these frogs to do the SAME thing to Rich F - Ask questions until they are satisifed with the answers

Most people don't need to ask when the guy's already been telling everyone exactly where and how he got his Panama pums. Gives out tips. Post pics of his set-ups. Pics of young and such. There's been no reason to doubt me. I don't give people with a level head the reason to doubt me.
But that does not stop people from reporting to government officials, filing FOIA acts and throwing people under the bus.

[RichFrye]

Nothing else new to see here.

[sidney ferrell]

By not being disputed , do you think my statement sums up everyone's feelings on the matter?

Heres the what keeps me thinking , wondering and curious !!!

Did you one day start building vivariums and all the sudden grannies,bjs and pumilio start appearing??? Or were your frogs at one point or another get imported(by you,a school friend...your brother)?

This whole thing is hating at its finest!

If any of could import 500+ pumilio like strictly can...i bet your ass we would! Ok, remove ray jr from the list of all time importers of pumilio...what are we left with last? el escudo de veraguas, el dorado and almirante from sndf. Yet...where are the threads/past posts of those lashing out at marcus breece for bringing in wc pumilio for a few years? Or villegas,moser ...??? Like i said, if they could they would. Bring in 500 pumilio that is. Now i realize that one guy innovates our hobby and gives us what we post about on our dream frog diaries and we shoot him down because we cant accept the fact that hes gonna be making a million or so on this? This hobby is driven by hate and jealousy...sucks having to remind myself on it and sucks to realize i have become a worse person ever since I started doing something i thought would keep me busy and happy at the same time... no----Im not drunk.....no---- im not on drugs....yes---- Im a mexican that tries hard to find the right words to put together here and share a little piece of my mind.

[Philsuma]

This hobby is driven by $$ by some.

The hobby is driven by passion by some.

The hobby is drive by both by a few.