Chuck Lawson Wrote:lol.. I'll find an excuse to go to the UK one of these days :-)
I don't think you've really got anything to agonize over in this generation -- if the hand reared ones don't end up having a parental instinct, then at worst you've got a generation of frogs that otherwise wouldn't have been here; a fine thing any way you slice it. Now if you decide to hand-rear -their- offspring, then you're making a moral decision (and not necessarily a wrong one; there are any number of domesticated species (and breeds of species) that essentially can't reproduce without human intervention; but they do become inarguably domesticated at that point. I'm fine with that too, but then again, I used to breed show cats ).
I'm in hopes that we'll see some new above-board importation too; in the meantime, there are still a few of the old lines around (so I'm told ;-) ), but I'm going to watch you blaze a trail awhile longer before I venture any deeper in Oophaga than my lowly pumilios :-)
Ahh hell I'll give you an excuse,and send ya back with spots before your eye's for good measure :wink: :lol: .
Chuck I'm a bird guy,specifically rare breeds of poultry were my lively hood for a while,say 250 breeds of chicken 30 plus of duck,turks geese you name it,so I utterly understand what you're saying.
For me ,well i wouldn't want to breed parental care out. These redheads have different calls,some are used in breeding,that's just the male side. That said,I can't see one generation removing this,it's been a long time getting here for them. I think the parental side is intrinsic to the joy of keeping , plus it's part of them. The flip to that is what I've seen actually rearing by hand,it almost gives me better chances of success in viv.I just know more now,even if I can't really express it. They are bright frogs Chuck,bot colour wise,but intelligence,I can't qualify it really. I'm really not sure whether it is possible for them to imprint on a mother like say a goose would,but traces of that are already posted above,I can see they know me,how that might manifest it's self,I'm unsure. Parental care stops with these at morphout,I guess,it doesn't with a goose!! So that bond shouldn't be as strong,so hopefully as adults,if they get there ,they do what thy do and will be attracted to their own kind,not me.
Chuck I talk incessantly to all our froggies,I'm sure many will think me mad,but for me it's a cornerstone of husbandary. they all know me,it alliviates stress,ahh dad's here in their eyes is massively different to ahh that big fella might kill me. Some species take a long time to assimilate this,say the summersi,others get it quicker. The red heads are on the quick side,pretty damn bold given time,oh and who would have thought they move just like a mystie. So where I'm going with this is I don't think this first generation will have any parental care problems,just got to know me a hell of a lot sooner,but that is complete conjecture!!
Ahh mate lowly pums,ain't it the coolest thing: I have bloody nemerteans in my RFB viv. So I feed springtails by the shovel load,I say dinner time,tiny red faces pop out,from under leaves out of axils,not all are this bold,but a goodly few,it's all facets of the same hobby,just different frogs.
Both guys are good by the way
Chuck it's been a blast talking to you about all this,I love the open point of view you have,it's also thought provoking for me
. It would be special to see more large oophaga out there I really want that we need a legit outcross here :oops: Beyond that a chance at stopping smuggling a chance at habitat being secured and some dosh for local folks whom then get to have a tangible reason to care for their habitat. I have endless time for this guy Ivan he's my froggy hero,that's sommit,never had one of those
thank YOU sir
Stu