Tesoros de Columbia -new frogs offered !

[cbreon]

...and to clarify, even more experienced hobbyists can have frogs die in their care.

[MyDumName]

So it is conceivable that these frogs will breed right out of the box, in large numbers. Not good for Tesoros.

It is Tesoros decision to release adult frogs the first go around....if this is bad for business, then why do it? I am sure they thought of it and if it was a bad decision...would they knowingly go forward with it? Does Tesoros share this same fear of the hobbyists taking their business?

[Philsuma]

#1 - There MUST be a profit margin. There simply must be someone, somewhere making money. Nothing get's done on God's green earth without a profit. We can all imagine huge tracts of land being set aside ect ect, but let's not permanently live in a land of Rainbows and Unicorns. By the same token, making money and earning is ok. No one is faulting anyone with profit in mind. We get it and accept it. All I hope for is that the GOOD people make money and the BAD people do not. That's all I think we can realistically hope for. Tesoros def seem like the Good people.

Importing frogs is importing frogs. Breeding is Breeding. Business is business. Hobbyists are, and will be, hobbyists.

The is no control after the import. No license. No rules, No expectations.

An animal conservation management technique comes to mind as an analogy. When releasing Walleye fingerlings into a lake for stocking, you can choose to dump them all into one area at one time. Sure bad things (predation) are going to happen and there will be a total loss of control after that point, but it's one of the best ways to get them out there quickly and have a high percentage survive.
Same thing here. Make the import of auratus and auratus-like frogs as big and as quick as possible and hope for the best.

[MyDumName]

Exactly....and once that demand is met, demand will decrease, so to offset the decrease in sales, release another new frog. Same with why UE doesn't release everything at once.

[Sherman]

So it is conceivable that these frogs will breed right out of the box, in large numbers. Not good for Tesoros.

It is Tesoros decision to release adult frogs the first go around....if this is bad for business, then why do it? I am sure they thought of it and if it was a bad decision...would they knowingly go forward with it? Does Tesoros share this same fear of the hobbyists taking their business?

The size of the frogs was not a consciously made decision. Much of this operation is based on what can be done, not what is best for the business. He is breaking new ground here, changing how Colombia operates. Ivan has been working on this project since at least 2006 and the frogs that were destined for sale are now breeding in his facility. He has been waiting for the permits to get them out of the country. These frogs have become a burden on him as that he is now personally absorbing the costs associated with the daily operations of the program. This is anything but a lucrative business for him.
If things went to plan, these animals have been here long ago.

[MyDumName]

Exactly....and once that demand is met, demand will decrease, so to offset the decrease in sales, release another new frog. Same with why UE doesn't release everything at once.

Too late to edit.....But that is why I don't understand the "protect the company" statements. They had to know people will breed the frogs....they can protect their own cash flow by not releasing everything at once. Also seeing it with the other company phasing out the Paru for another type. Keeps the cash flow coming in.

[hoppityBoppity11]

New to the forums but not to these little critters....

Reading this I couldnt help but to ask one thing.

I noticed that after strckly and the current pumilio craze, other breeding projects have now opened up and somehow targeting the "obligate keepers" in the hobby. Why werent these projects pushed like they are now maybe 3-5 years ago. Have they been monitoring what strickly was doing with pumilio and decided to just one up them And do it better? Not that ill mind getting a pair of lemanni when available but it seems like theyre just teasing us and trying to kill us with anticipation by flashing pics of larger obligates here and there.

[Sherman]

#1 - There MUST be a profit margin. There simply must be someone, somewhere making money. Nothing get's done on God's green earth without a profit.

Yes. If frog X has a market value of $100. A breeder in the US can make a larger profit than Tesoros due to a much lower overhead. Eventually the market value of frog X will be lower than Tesoros's overhead. At this point the only profit to be made will be for private breeders. Tesoros will be cut out of the loop.

We can all imagine huge tracts of land being set aside ect ect, but let's not permanently live in a land of Rainbows and Unicorns. By the same token, making money and earning is ok. No one is faulting anyone with profit in mind. We get it and accept it. All I hope for is that the GOOD people make money and the BAD people do not. That's all I think we can realistically hope for. Tesoros def seem like the Good people.

I'm not faulting anyone for trying to make money. I am just asking that people look at the big picture. Tesoros is essentially doing us a favor by making these frogs available to us. I would like to see the hobby create an inviting business atmosphere for them to operate in rather than that of a cut-throat "business is business" environment.

Hobbyists are, and will be, hobbyists.
The is no control after the import. No license. No rules, No expectations.

True.
I will add frog hobbyists will be businesses.

[Sherman]

New to the forums but not to these little critters....

Reading this I couldnt help but to ask one thing.

I noticed that after strckly and the current pumilio craze, other breeding projects have now opened up and somehow targeting the "obligate keepers" in the hobby. Why werent these projects pushed like they are now maybe 3-5 years ago. Have they been monitoring what strickly was doing with pumilio and decided to just one up them And do it better? Not that ill mind getting a pair of lemanni when available but it seems like theyre just teasing us and trying to kill us with anticipation by flashing pics of larger obligates here and there.

These projects have been in the works for many years. The Strckly imports have negatively impacted the effectiveness of these programs, not created them. These captive breeding programs take an incredible amount of energy, dedication, time and money to come to fruition. They are not smash and grab operations. They face obsticles that simple importers do not have to contend with.
The only reason for dangling the lehmanni carrot is to get attention. Tesoros released truncatus last year and no one noticed/cared. They are releasing another group on non-obligates this year and needed to create a buzz. They are desperate to stay afloat at this point. If these frogs do not sell, we will probably not get the lehmanni.

[Sherman]

Exactly....and once that demand is met, demand will decrease, so to offset the decrease in sales, release another new frog. Same with why UE doesn't release everything at once.

Too late to edit.....But that is why I don't understand the "protect the company" statements. They had to know people will breed the frogs....they can protect their own cash flow by not releasing everything at once. Also seeing it with the other company phasing out the Paru for another type. Keeps the cash flow coming in.

This is a do what you can process.
If there were more control over how this process played out, they could take steps to protect the program. Unfortunately there are no guarantees on timelines and the facility is only so large. They release what they have permits for and they release them as soon as they can to fund the next round of permits. Once this program has it's feet under it, they may be able to withstand some of these pressures, but right now, they need our help to continue what they do.

[MyDumName]

Yes. If frog X has a market value of $100. A breeder in the US can make a larger profit than Tesoros due to a much lower overhead. Eventually the market value of frog X will be lower than Tesoros's overhead. At this point the only profit to be made will be for private breeders. Tesoros will be cut out of the loop.

Genuine question here as I know nothing about the economics down there......but a large number of businesses operate in other countries due to lower costs....how is the overhead in Columbia higher then in the US? Feel like everything in this country is so expensive.....electricity, insurance, taxes (NJ at least), etc.

[Sherman]

Exactly....and once that demand is met, demand will decrease, so to offset the decrease in sales, release another new frog. Same with why UE doesn't release everything at once.

Too late to edit.....But that is why I don't understand the "protect the company" statements. They had to know people will breed the frogs....they can protect their own cash flow by not releasing everything at once. Also seeing it with the other company phasing out the Paru for another type. Keeps the cash flow coming in.

Greg,

I re-read this and feel that I understand your point better now.
Yes, Tesoros intends to bring us all sorts of new and exciting frogs, and that will keep them going in years to come. This is just the beginning, if they are around to do it.
I was able to sit down with Ivan and talk to him at SACAS. He was a beaten man. The complete lack of response for the truncaus had him second guessing this project. He was counting on the revenue from those frogs to keep things going. There was no revenue from those frogs because no one bought them. That should have broken this program. At this point he is throwing good money at bad to make this work. This will not continue forever. If he does not begin to recoup his losses, this will end. I would like to see that not happen.

[Sherman]

Yes. If frog X has a market value of $100. A breeder in the US can make a larger profit than Tesoros due to a much lower overhead. Eventually the market value of frog X will be lower than Tesoros's overhead. At this point the only profit to be made will be for private breeders. Tesoros will be cut out of the loop.

Genuine question here as I know nothing about the economics down there......but a large number of businesses operate in other countries due to lower costs....how is the overhead in Columbia higher then in the US? Feel like everything in this country is so expensive.....electricity, insurance, taxes (NJ at least), etc.

A large amount of money is going to lawyers that are changing the laws to allow these frogs to be legally exported.
On top of that there is the facility to house and breed these frogs, the permits and then the actuall shipping costs. It all adds up very quickly.

[Philsuma]

the exact species MUST be carefully selected for the target market - the U.S hobby.

To pick the wrong species spells disaster.

To try and 'chase' the hobbyists and the money by wishing on future projects and promises is bad business IMO.

truncatus was a poor species choice for marketing to the U.S hobby and I'm afraid someone did not advise Ivan correctly.

[Sherman]

the exact species MUST be carefully selected for the target market - the U.S hobby.

To pick the wrong species spells disaster.

To try and 'chase' the hobbyists and the money by wishing on future projects and promises is bad business IMO.

truncatus was a poor species choice for marketing to the U.S hobby and I'm afraid someone did not advise Ivan correctly.

Truncatus was not a choice.
That was the only species that Colombia would initially allow permits to export.

I believe this is more of a ground breaking process that deserves to be nurtured than it is a good business model.

[Philsuma]

True. I can see that.

Then we must think 'Scale'. If truncatus was the only frog allowed, why was the scale so large ?

It still all boils down to successful business return, investment and profit margins. Business 101. Applies to conservation efforts or selling plastic star wars toys alike.

[MyDumName]

I got 6 of the truncatus and while I like them...they weren't a must have and I agree wasn't the best first choice.....but sounds like it was out of his hands. I think the aurotaneia aren't gonna be huge hits either....tho the black and green on them is really cool and definitely a frog more should give consideration to.

Would have been a better start it the first frog could have been a completely new to the market frog. Guess we will have to get a report back how this first shipment with the new frogs goes. I unfortunately am not getting anything this first shipment. Had enough on order already w UE.

[RanaVenenosa]

I have the old line Truncs and they are one of my favorite. I think your correct, if the truncs had been blue morph or a species that was unique to what we already had it would have been different. I have sold several groups of Truncatus so they are appreciated, but no where near to the classic beginner frogs.

[cbreon]

As for the upcoming imports, it does seem that there is quite a bit of demand for the auratus, which should help Tesoros continue. As someone else mentioned, its ashame about the truncatus, they are cool, and I have always liked the aurontaenia, they are a very underappreciated frog.

[frogfreak]

It still all boils down to successful business return, investment and profit margins. Business 101. Applies to conservation efforts or selling plastic star wars toys alike.

And, if this business failed? We'd be so happy about that...We should be asking ourselves what we can do to help. The way I see it, this is a very unique situation and opportunity as well.