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Philsuma Wrote:Again Chris..what exact species and prices are we talking ?
I sincerely hope that we don't 'crucify' the American Frogger if this falls through. The economy is still in the shitter AND we are looking at a Govt shutdown.
I could purchase 6 frogs myself right now, but it would be a 'desperation purchase' for me, as I'm not set-up for them and I'm still 'between 2 states - FL and PA and now maybe 3 RI. I just can't pull it off myself nor could I coax, cajole or otherwise 'cheerleader' others to do what they won't on their own.
Bad timing for Frog purchases...bad TIMING.
Phil, I'm not up for crucifying the American frogger either,I do not see this as just a problem for your hobby to help with,tis for all of us mate. If all this comes to fruition all of us will benefit,brits dutch americans germans canadians,who ever where ever,it matters not.
We pretty much all want this.
Stu
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Agreed Stu. If well-wishes and positive energy and karma can fuel this effort, than we can shoot this Rocket to the Moon!
I'm sure those of us with extra money and the ability to take on new animals will help as much as they can.
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Sherman Wrote:MyDumName Wrote:MyDumName Wrote:Exactly....and once that demand is met, demand will decrease, so to offset the decrease in sales, release another new frog. Same with why UE doesn't release everything at once.
Too late to edit.....But that is why I don't understand the "protect the company" statements. They had to know people will breed the frogs....they can protect their own cash flow by not releasing everything at once. Also seeing it with the other company phasing out the Paru for another type. Keeps the cash flow coming in. Greg,
I re-read this and feel that I understand your point better now.
Yes, Tesoros intends to bring us all sorts of new and exciting frogs, and that will keep them going in years to come. This is just the beginning, if they are around to do it.
I was able to sit down with Ivan and talk to him at SACAS. He was a beaten man. The complete lack of response for the truncaus had him second guessing this project. He was counting on the revenue from those frogs to keep things going. There was no revenue from those frogs because no one bought them. That should have broken this program. At this point he is throwing good money at bad to make this work. This will not continue forever. If he does not begin to recoup his losses, this will end. I would like to see that not happen.
Had Ivan checked with industry folks or even done a quick survey on the boards...he could have figured out that demand for those truncs would be very low. Gotta understand your end market before you put in the effort to produce something!
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TerraFerma Wrote:Had Ivan checked with industry folks or even done a quick survey on the boards...he could have figured out that demand for those truncs would be very low. Gotta understand your end market before you put in the effort to produce something!
It's been posted multiple times now that the truncatus were not chosen by Tesoros as the first import. They were the ONLY frogs Ivan could get permits for. All of this talk of poor import choices is a bit ridiculous when people keep pointing out it's the Colombian government, not Tesoros. I'm surprised they didn't sell better. First legal Colombian frogs in a long time and they barely sold. I bet if they were a tinctorius population they would have sold out :roll:
I'll be getting a few of the narrow banded aurotaenia. Hopefully frogs other than just the orange terribilis sell well. I haven't even heard of anyone getting the yellow blackfoots. Anyone getting them?
Adam Hess
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I smell what you are laying down...but just because something is possible doesn't mean it makes economic sense. I'd be getting both terriblis if I had the room. I guess there is some demand for the orange through UE? As of yesterday, at least, it sounds like BJ has zero orders (tough sell when you are charging more than the only other, and very well know folks importing them...but maybe they don't get the same deal as UE).
EDIT: I have no idea what the Colombian government's motivation is for allowing anything out legally in the first place...but if its:
1) For the purpose of making money on permits/fees - they ain't hitting any home runs there based on the demand for what they have approved so far
2) For the purpose of reducing smuggling - still got to smuggle out your big egg eaters...and I don't think anyone was trying to smuggle the rest of the stuff (save the yellow auratus) in the first place.
Governments nowadays are seldom logical operators (see...yesterday and today...and for however long this takes to get sorted), but maybe it would have been better played to grind it out and make the economic argument to the permit givers to get the whole thing done proper style from the get go. That said...I've heard through the grapevine that at least a few populations (that we know of) of the big egg eaters are very ridiculously less commonly found than a decade ago. So it may be the big egg eaters aren't in a position to be collected for captive breeding in the first place (at least according the the governments of where these frogs live).
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RichFrye Wrote:In attempting to learn more about these new projects I find it very hard to get good hard data.
Why are the people on this end not speaking up about the projects they are involved in? If I were importing these frogs and needed some boosting of sales I should as heck would not be sitting on my typing fingers...
MP and BJ and some guy in Toledo may want to start posting, especially if things are as dark for this awesome opportunity as it seems.
That's what I don't understand. Why has there not been more advertising or boosting of this import. Almost all the info on the forums is he said she said. I have yet to see an ad or thread of any kind posted by the ones selling these frogs.I got more info off facebook then I have any where else including a price list. Such a great opportunity and I hope to place an order in the next day or two if things go how I hope.
Garrick H.
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RichFrye Wrote:thedude Wrote:BcsTx Wrote:Quite a few of the Paru parished, very lengthy thread on DB titled "Dead Sylvaticus" from what I have read from others is they were extremely male heavy, besides enclosures and husbandry issues I would venture the deaths could be due to male on male aggression.
Don't hold that thread in too high of respect. I've heard from several reliable sources that the number of dead sylvatica was a bit...exaggerated... So, who exactly is exaggerating in that thread Adam?
Still waiting for the answer to this question Adam.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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hutch0203 Wrote:RichFrye Wrote:In attempting to learn more about these new projects I find it very hard to get good hard data.
Why are the people on this end not speaking up about the projects they are involved in? If I were importing these frogs and needed some boosting of sales I should as heck would not be sitting on my typing fingers...
MP and BJ and some guy in Toledo may want to start posting, especially if things are as dark for this awesome opportunity as it seems.
That's what I don't understand. Why has there not been more advertising or boosting of this import. Almost all the info on the forums is he said she said. I have yet to see an ad or thread of any kind posted by the ones selling these frogs.I got more info off facebook then I have any where else including a price list. Such a great opportunity and I hope to place an order in the next day or two if things go how I hope. Yes. Free advertising and the opportunity to educate us all with good facts... Big, big ball dropping.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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RichFrye Wrote:Still waiting for the answer to this question Adam.
I'm confident you can figure it out Rich :wink:
Adam Hess
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Actually , I have not read that thread in quite awhile.
I think it would be pretty shitty if someone was lying about deaths, be it lying about too many, or covering up deaths.
Guess I will read it again if it's that clear.
Someone should have confronted anyone bullshitting about something like that.
Darts with parasites are analogous to mixed tanks, there are no known benefits to the frogs with either.
If tone is more important to you than content, you are at the wrong place.
My new email address is: rich.frye@icloud.com and new phone number is 773 577 3476
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Greg and Chris are suggesting stickers and T-shirts as fundraising...NOW we are thinking outside the box! Good stuff!
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Another option would be non-refundable deposits torwards future projects. For example, lets just say the future Histos will be $500/per. Then you could start putting deposits down now, they could have the cash to help continue funding their projects, and people can secure a spot on the wait list.
Another possibility would be some sort of donation with some sort of credit given, maybe a point system, or something and the points could later be used torwards purchasing future projects. But either way, its a means for Ivan and Tesoros to get funding to help their projects continue.
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Good thoughts also...but this option is kinda hard. The monies have to be in some sort of SAFE, trustworthy escrow and NO OFFENSE to anyone living ANYWHERE outside the U.S of A but that leaves them out. Mark P. would be the obvious exception to that statement based on his hobby credentials alone.
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C'mon Phil, be a little more creative here.
How about a CSH -- Community Supported Herpetoculture, kind of like a CSA. Members of the Tesoros CSH would get preference on upcoming import waiting lists, discounts on the frogs, and perhaps recieve a monthly/quarterly email that would include pics, husabndry info, and stories from the Tesoros operation. The membership would cost Tesoros nothing intiiallly, would provide them with some additional funds, offer them some indications of the level of interest of their projects (feedback, communication, etc). Offering a discount on the frogs may also help them move some of the frogs they are currently trying to move.
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dude, I'm a wellspring of creativity, hopes and dreams...seriously ,I am.
all I'm saying is that the escrow $$ needs to be an Uh-Merican entity, is all. Heck we BARELY trust each other (Govt shutdown).
The price point has to be low again...imagine rank-and-file U.S hobbyists asked to contribute hundreds of their greenbacks into an account that sits for a while with a latent return ?? Ouch.
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Philsuma Wrote:dude, I'm a wellspring of creativity, hopes and dreams...seriously ,I am.
all I'm saying is that the escrow $$ needs to be an Uh-Merican entity, is all. Heck we BARELY trust each other (Govt shutdown).
The price point has to be low again...imagine rank-and-file U.S hobbyists asked to contribute hundreds of their greenbacks into an account that sits for a while with a latent return ?? Ouch.
Im just breaking ur stones...but seriously, what about a membership with member benefits aka the CSH as mentioned above? I don't think its much of a stretch to think there would be 100+ hobbyisits that would pay a $100 membership fee to get the benefits mentioned above. Thats $10k+ with no more investment by Tesoros, not many other things can produce that type of return without any investment.
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yep...that's a GREAT idea -A 'Gold Club' membership with Black Jungle or Mark P. or whomever but there's the first hurdle. Tersoros is basically gonna sell to anyone placing an order with valid import destination ecy.
That would blow a hole in it. We are already seeing the 'price fighting' taking place between importers of these frogs right now.
I still LOVE the 'sound' of that.....Gold Club......some business should totally market that.
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cbreon Wrote:Philsuma Wrote:dude, I'm a wellspring of creativity, hopes and dreams...seriously ,I am.
all I'm saying is that the escrow $$ needs to be an Uh-Merican entity, is all. Heck we BARELY trust each other (Govt shutdown).
The price point has to be low again...imagine rank-and-file U.S hobbyists asked to contribute hundreds of their greenbacks into an account that sits for a while with a latent return ?? Ouch.
Im just breaking ur stones...but seriously, what about a membership with member benefits aka the CSH as mentioned above? I don't think its much of a stretch to think there would be 100+ hobbyisits that would pay a $100 membership fee to get the benefits mentioned above. Thats $10k+ with no more investment by Tesoros, not many other things can produce that type of return without any investment.
BJ can't get 10 people to spend $1000 on actual frogs. Why do you think 100+ people would pay $100 for nothing in their hands, just a promise of something in the future, maybe, possibly.
Jon
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I received word from Ivan today. He is working on a "Donate" button for his website, but it will take about a month. In the meantime he might use his friends PayPal account, but he is waiting on permission.
I have asked him if I could create and sell t-shirts and stickers on his behalf. If anyone has some slick graphic arts skills and wants to whip up a design that incorporates the Tesoros logo, that would help me get moving. Ivan would have final say on the design, and the job would pay squat.
I will keep you all posted if any of this comes to life.
Thank you,
Chris Sherman
One big methane burp from the ocean could make everything here obsolete.
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Exciting stuff... Hopefully the project makes it to the first lehmanni and histrionica, but I think I'm even more excited about the possibility of Andinobates entering the hobby. Some very cool frogs (RED!) in that group. Fulguritus used to exist in the hobby but if any are still around I haven't heard anything, especially about breeding in years.
Everything I've ever wrote is/was just my opinion 
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