Jim from Austin's frog wall

[joneill809]

Figured it was time to start a generic topic on the work I've been doing with my frog wall. I've been consolidating my vivs and my collection a bit as I focus on Lorenzo and Robertus. Here are the individual threads I have going on various frogs in my collection:

Lorenzo: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7466
Robertus: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8532
True Sipaliwini: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8195
Azureus breeding: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6384
Azureus viv: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=6303
Bakhuis (18" cube build): viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7420
Red Galactanotus (120 ghostviv): viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7981
hood builds: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7615

Over the summer I went all in and started concentrating my collection in one area. Here's a shot of the new layout, with my Robertus, True Sips and Lorenzo vivs as the 18x18x24, and some group grow out 2.5's for tads (upper shelf), and 20L for froglets (left). There are some other grow outs in the cabinets, along with electrical and misting.
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The Galacts, Azureus and Bakhuis are still in other displays around the house, but the majority of my frogs are now concentrated here. I like the 18x18x24 footprint, and I've spent a good bit of time on building custom hoods for each one that actively control the airflow through the vivs that I can adjust seasonally. I'll keep the other threads going as well for morph specific updates, but I'll use this one for random shots and generic vivarium stuff moving forward.

More to come.

[joneill809]

Here's my latest build of an 18x18x24 - last viv on the right. I got a nice cork round in the latest batch of bulk cork that I purchased so I decided to make a simulated tree trunk out of that piece combined with a few more smaller pieces. Since this is on the outside line of vivs in the row I decided to leave two panes of glass for viewing. Here's the angle view:
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The root on the right is one smaller cork round, the root in the center is two pieces of cork, and the root on the left is about 7 pieces of bark. I also had to fill in a few areas on the base of the round to block access to the central part of the round. There is also screen below the Turface line to prevent an digging to get into the round. I was temped to hollow out a section of the round, but I thought it would interrupt the vertical look I was going for. Straight on through the front door:
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You can see the deposition area in the front of the viv that uses a cork flat cut to fit flush against the left side of the viv and the bottom forming a bulkhead against an egg crate false bottom. I've been using this design for the past 4 vivs and the tincs seem to like it. There are smaller pieces of cork bark glued under the gravel on the right side to help maintain the sloped access to the pool area.

There's about 2 gallons of Turface in there. I've found the more I use, the better my springtail population is. I go heavy on Turface, and I put pockets of ABG in where I want to drop some plants. There will be a layer of crushed magnolia leaves in there when I'm done that will cover up the Turface.

Here's a close up of the top of the trunk. I like the clean look of the flush cut to the top glass (frosted appliqué to hide the hood innards from view - it also seems to throw a nicer lighting effect than straight glass):
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I've got some silicone cleanup to do, fly proofing, venting, and planting left. I have to finish the hood - the box is built but I have to drill a blow hole, cut the rear access portal, trim out and paint. I'm planning on Selaginella uncinata (peacock spike moss) cascading down the left and back walls using the cork flats glued to the walls as scaffolding (there are some big ledges in the back that will have Turface and ABG as a good starting point - once uncinata gets going there's no stopping it ). I'll also have Peperomia orba (Pixie Peperomia) as a show specimen in the front center of the viv, and low cut Peperomia trinervula wrapping the exposed glass sides of the viv for a nice carpeted look.

This will be home to a 1.1 D. tinctorius Lorenzo pairing (UE x Stewart).

[joneill809]

I've been experimenting with a new idea for sealing the front vents on an Exoterra. Despite my previous best efforts, I was still getting a lot of escapees. My attempts to seal the inner portion of the vents was not very effective, so I siliconed solar screening to the outside front bezel. Here are two examples of the 5 vivs I applied these to:
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I suspect most of the remaining escapees were coming out the only other gap I could find, under the handles on the doors:
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I've sealed those up as well and I'll see how well the new gaskets work. Hopefully I can keep the rogue fly population down in the new room...

Some shots from the vivs:
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[whitethumb]

Nicely done!!!!

[joneill809]

Thanks Damien! I finished up the sixth viv, it's hood, and some additional finish work to clean up the displays a bit. Here's the current state of the counter (click on the image to display the cropped viv to the left):
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A close up of the final viv:
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My fan speeds need some adjustment after I added the screen over the front vents. I have condensation on the three vivs on the left all day now. The final viv needs a few months of growth to fill out a bit. I went pretty sparse on the planting to highlight the cork round since it's a corner tank. Eventually I'll have a Lorenzo pair in there after I shuffle around my UE x Stewart pairings.

Here's a true sip that morphed out in viv. It surprised me how different its coloration was compared to the adults:
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[goods]

Jim, keep up the good work. I've never had much success with tincs, but you're definitely doing well with some under-kept locales. Your pictures also tempt me to try my hand at some when I have the space (which won't be for years unfortunately).

[joneill809]

Thanks Zach! I hear you on the space! The Robertus and True Sips are amazingly bold - pretty much always out. The Lorenzo are flaky and easily spooked, but there is something about them - size / yellow head staring back from the shadows / subtle blues - that makes up for it. Definitely worth it when you can carve out some space.

[goods]

Yeah, a friend of mine almost picked up a pair of the Robertus from Marcus last summer. I think I like them so much because their color/patterns can be so diverse...kind of like green sips. I agree on the Lorenzo's. They don't have the vibrant flashiness of some other tinc morphs, but they're really interesting. Maybe it's because they're so un-tinc-like haha. Flaky is ok...I keep mainly thumbs and Ameerega, and those guys really make you appreciate your plants. My frog buddies laugh because I get excited over a new root on an orchid.

[BlueDacnis1]

hello Jim
Nice frog displays,very clean looking!
you may already know this and if you do maybe others reading your post may not know it, but if you open the front of the exo terra or zoo meds at the bottom back side of the the vent there are four tabs that you can push in on and then up on and the back side of the the vent can be removed. One at the rt, lft and two in the middle! once you remove it you can take any type of filter floss or ac filter material, foam etc. and cut 1.5" or so strips and push them into the sections inside the vent, then re-install the plastic strip and it seals it right up for good and then it is out of sight of viewing!
regards Jerry A

[joneill809]

Thanks Jerry! Great point!

I have been trying different ways of sealing the internal vent for a few years, mostly with screen glued to the removable shield that you described. I didn't try foam though. I went with the external approach because I had trouble getting a snug fit around the perimeter of the internal shield, so the flies got around that, but the foam may address that. I did seal the vents with electrical tape for a few months and it did appear to help so I just sealed them from the outside. Anyhow I agree, the foam path is prettier.

My other motivation was airflow. I did think about the foam approach, but I rely heavily on moving air through those vents with my exhaust fans and I didn't want to alter the air flow patterns too much with foam which might force me to retune all my fan speeds...so I was being lazy :lol:.

[BlueDacnis1]

Hello Jim
If you go to home depot or lowes you can get the ac filter pads and they will let the air flow through, also if you add a tiny bead of silicone to the edges of your doors and then take the edge of a single edged razor blade where it has that little notch on the side, you can run that notch over the bead of silicone and it will leave a nice rounded bead on the edge of the doors and seal them up as well! Did you used to work for ADG by chance?
Regards Jerry Acuff

[joneill809]

Not me! I've worked mostly for smaller tech startups here in Austin.

[Stu&Shaz]

Jim,it's a beautiful wall,I'm already jealous, it's just your wall is bigger than our whole house!!

Buddy I need to dash,so expect more lunacy later on. But I just wanted you to know NOW !! how impressed we both are,with the builds and setup,rest assured I will come back asap to comment properly

Bloody great mate,I've wondered about the big picture with you for a goodly while now,lovely to finally see it

thanks for sharing kiddo

Stu and Shaz!!

[joneill809]

Thanks Stu! I was thinking of getting into thumbs but I found that I really got into Lorenzo and Robertus so I'm planning out some collection changes to make room for more lorenzo pairs / small groups.

Currently I have two vivs dedicated to lorenzo but I plan on having four by spring. I have 1.3 from Sean and 2.0 from UE that I'm pairing up into 1.1s. I have 0.0.4 coming in from UE soon so I'm hoping to get four groups of "non sibling" animals going. As you might have guessed I made the decision last year to focus on lorenzo. That plus the Robertus is where I am heading. The azzies and bakhuis are my kids frogs and not on this wall.

I think I'm at a nice collection size now so you probably won't see more morphs coming in. Maybe more pairs of the same morphs. I'll post some pics of the individual vivs soon!

[Stu&Shaz]

All credit Jim,caring for more than one viv of a morph species seems like the most sound of practices. It's so difficult to pick out which frogs to keep (without actually keeping them first) I'm at a loss at the moment as to our own progress,ie how to proceed. We have some projects like the RFb and cem basti the summersi and red heads which are heading this way. I need a bigger room which isn't an option,so maybe I'll build something one day. I just can't bring myself to part with anything brought here to breed ,so a lack of space is all.

The lorenzo are some lovely frogs,Jim,ahh mate I'm hopeless ,love the robertus as well. I'm sure I've already said how much I admire your plans with the robertus. The lorenzo are scarce with you guys ( I believe) are they now reasonably secure over there Jim? I remember reading that folks were having difficulties getting fertility or Glenn might have told me? Glenn did tell me :lol:

Jim have you heard of "black ghost" lorenzo I've been digging a while but I just can't find what I wanted to for you as of yet,anyway. If I recollect there is sex linkage at play,but I'm so fried at the mo. memory is beyond hopeless

Keep pushing mate the hobby needs keepers whom show diligence to a morph 8)

best

Stu

[joneill809]

Thanks Stu! I didn't think my collection would take this direction a year ago, then I got an opportunity to source some adult male Lorenzos which got me thinking of setting up as many unrelated pairs as I could.

Lorenzo over here are hard to come by, and as you mentioned they have fertility issues, smaller clutches, and they seem to take a bit longer to mature. I've been pretty lucky with my sibling trio (1.2 Stewart) which has produced about 20 froglets so far, but I'm about to shake things up and move to the 3 x 1.1 setup I mentioned in the prior post.

I've heard of black ghosts, but I have not seen one over here. Bill Schwinn mentioned he thought his Lorenzo pair from 10+ years ago threw a black ghost once (about 100 to 200 total froglets). It seems like they have a higher rate across the pond; I know Martin has a pair with a ghost (Darren too I believe), and all ghosts seem to be female. Martin's female:

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I posted this on another thread, but it does seem like males have more yellow - here are my 6 adults (click on the image to see the male on the lower right):
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I guess that is another aspect of Lorenzo that I find potentially intriguing ... is it possible the sexes have different coloration? Or is this an artifact of limited hobby genetics? Overall, the UE Lorenzo females seem to have less yellow than Sean's from images I have seen of some UE animals...looking forward to getting mine

Right now, the only two sources I am aware of in NA are UE and Sean, though there are quite a few folks picking up UE animals (I was on their wait list for about a year). My first froglets should be ready soon (~6 months - they are so tiny morphing out I have been holding them longer). I think we'll be seeing more of them over here soon, but we still likely could use an import of animals from the EU to revitalize the line we have (I know one of Sean's is from UE, so the genetics are limited).

My goal is to get 4 producing non-sibling groups, then try and get sets of 4 froglets from different parents that I'd offer as groups. I'd like to get people thinking about grouping animals from different parents, but I understand how difficult it is for some to buy the same morph from multiple places...so I figured I'd give it a go.

I think they are worth picking up when you get a chance, but I am biased :lol:

[Stu&Shaz]

Jim,you might have noted,the discussion about the new dart site here in UK froggers. I think Darren does have a ghost,there is another breeder here called John (ghastly),he's a lovely guy(GOOD !!!! breeder too),actually not that far from us. It might be worth you guys hooking up,there might just be something to be learned,as I'm sure he is keeping lorenzo too.

It does seem like there is something in the colour and sex doesn't it Jim,but with such a small gene pool,hellish difficult to really know if this is a capivity issue. Fascinating all the same.

Tell you what mate on referencing your link to tinctorious ch (man I should know this all by heart, but so many morphs),that little comment about the temps cooling so much at night rang some bells. It really did !!

Bro I'd actually love some,but it's the space aspect,I didn't even mention the atachis above( Others are now being bred here I think,but I strongly suspect they might all originate from our first pair,so again I really need to set another viv for these). But I can live this one through you. I'm having a hard time rearing a particular frog at the mo,Jim, it's really interesting watching someone work up a real plan for a frog's future,especially one where I'm aware there are difficulties to be summounted. I wish you all the luck!! The unrelated groups of young is a fantastic goal to work towards,what a start for the next guy 8)

Oh Jim,just a monster thanks for this and the effort put into these posts really enjoyable to read and also very informative

Take care buddy,bloody Texas,I want to see the sun again too :lol:

Stu

[joneill809]

A few shots from around the vivs. Figured it was time the Bakhuis got some props:
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And a True Sip froglet...
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[Dan1990]

I love your pictures.

[joneill809]

Some shots from around the vivs:
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So I went ahead and kept the red galacts:
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Lorenzo froglets:
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The wee ones:
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