Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Mantisdragon91 Wrote:Why would it be on Strictly to quarantine anything? They are a wholesaler and not a retail establishment that deals with the public. Last time I checked they are very specific about what they are offering, you want a low priced animal you assume all the risks.
Agree 100%
Mantisdragon91 Wrote:In this regard they are a hell of a lot more honest than many of the people that have slipped in and out of our hobby over the years
uh...NOT agree 100%
just my oh-pin-yin 8)
Philsuma Wrote:Mantisdragon91 Wrote:Why would it be on Strictly to quarantine anything? They are a wholesaler and not a retail establishment that deals with the public. Last time I checked they are very specific about what they are offering, you want a low priced animal you assume all the risks.
Agree 100%
Mantisdragon91 Wrote:In this regard they are a hell of a lot more honest than many of the people that have slipped in and out of our hobby over the years
uh...NOT agree 100%
just my oh-pin-yin 8)
I can respect that Phil. What I mean is that unlike many people in our hobby they let you know whether an animal is CB or WC and do not claim that it has been treated and is doing fine. Have they done some shady things with their imports yes they have, have they lied to their customers about the quality of their animals. Not really.
Boy are you dumb.
I posted your own email which you say I won't be getting WC illegal arboreus because I refuse to work with them. You later assured me to have proof of some legal frogs I ask about. Being koi, which are also known as whitefoot. The first ones you offered me, which I turned down were " most likely smuggled" , in your own stupid , stupid words. I'll dig it out later this week.
Also, as one member here posted, YOU claim to have Robalo. Another lie? or do you work with Robalo?
Anybody with the slightest skills can and has already looked up info which I have posted about my pums.
So, did you lie to all of us here when saying you did not have arboreus or just me when you said you did?
How about using my name to lie and my name to ask for help/good feedback.
How about having Robalo?
This lie list will just keep building.
Dirtbag.
How about the agreement to pay me back Sidney? Can you prove anything? I'll answer that.
Sidney Ferrell has owed me $4000 since before the beginning of this year. He has yet to make any agreement in writing at all as to how much he thinks he owes me and when he will start making payments. He also did not return my last email sent a few days ago.
RichFrye Wrote:Mantisdragon91 Wrote:RichFrye Wrote:You miss my point again Mark.
Strictly was the first to touch the pums when they landed. They should be the ones to quarantine, but sold them right away. My point was there is photographic proof(yours) that they don't properly quarantine.
ps, WTF?
Why would it be on Strictly to quarantine anything? They are a wholesaler and not a retail establishment that deals with the public. Last time I checked they are very specific about what they are offering, you want a low priced animal you assume all the risks. In thi regard they are a hell of a lot more honest than many of the people that have slipped in and out of our hobby over the years
It's "on them" because they are the first point of contact. Period. Everything (500, 800, 1000) at once instead of 250, 400, 500 pairs that 250, 400, 500 different people may or may not spread WC nasties around. Tough concept?
Cheap just happens to enter into price , not the need to quarantine.
I disagree. The importer should get them out the door as fast as possible. The longer they stay in that warehouse, the worse they get. Ideally I wouldn't even want them unpacked from their containers - just send em right along to Sidney, Shawn, ect as quick as possible. Not unpacking them would actually help lessen stress, I would think.
NOW Marcus, Shawn, Sidney..whomever...that are the RETAIL end of things. THEY need to q-tine. I've seen Marcu's q-tine ROOM and related plastic critter keepers - only ONE pumilio per. I was very impressed with his level of care and q-tine.
one of tge reasons I respect m.breece as well( money man or not) is that he actually went into strictly and set them up with many cultures and automatic feeders, so that at least the frogs sitting longer in the warehouse dont get it too bad. And compared to 10-11 , this year I have noticed many of strictlys from arriving to people with decent amount of meat pn them and quite healthier and lesser stressed...Im all for what marcus did and his willigness to eduacate the guys at strictly and them actually following through with it and giving these frogs the next best thing to a qt...Or whatever you may want to call it
Phil,
When I hear about people, high profile Froggers in a tight community no less, posting or threatening to post personal email communications online, the first thought that comes to my mind is that I'd have no further trust in ever talking with, emailing or otherwise conversing with someone who would stoop to publicly posting his/her private conversations in order to 'win' an argument. No matter if they 'were' right or wrong, I just don't see future trust being offered if the consequences are betrayed confidence.
How could you trust someone who at anytime would/could dig up and post your private remarks? Think about it. [no emoticon necessary]
Second thought is "what might the corollary be to a site owner who allows such acts to continue without consequence, who turns a blind eye to such behaviors?"
I have to say this thread continues mostly to be a personal 'fight' between 2 members and little to do with the original intent of the thread as I would interpret it.
I won't be posting her further, but if anyone would like to talk with me, [and know their emails and calls will not be later resurrected in order to gain an upper hand], please email me at
ph_md@yahoo.com">sph_md@yahoo.com or U may call me by emailing first and I will give you my cell # if you don't already have it.
In the end I hope this issue between members is resolved, as I have said to both parties privately. No good becomes of it unsettled. Both look ridiculous on the process.
As for the import of site specific animals, I hope those that have access to them will shed some light on how that process can be accomplished both NOW/ as it has been for them, and in the future so we may improve how we all manage our captives better.
Lastly Phil, I apologies if I let my emotions do the typing in some of my posts but I will stop now, and LET others decide if they would like to trust my posts, and my opinions on their own, rather then to tell them they will trust them. [was dying to put an emoticon here, but refrained]
Best to all,
S
Yeah...I must be purty dumb. I mean, look how I have been exposing my true self to the public and slowly but surely shitting on my "self proclaimed" flawless rep....Keep it up... Got a few more to go to scare all!
RichFrye Wrote:Boy are you dumb.
I posted your own email which you say I won't be getting WC illegal arboreus because I refuse to work with them. You later assured me to have proof of some legal frogs I ask about. Being koi, which are also known as whitefoot. The first ones you offered me, which I turned down were " most likely smuggled" , in your own stupid , stupid words. I'll dig it out later this week.
Also, as one member here posted, YOU claim to have Robalo. Another lie? or do you work with Robalo?
Anybody with the slightest skills can and has already looked up info which I have posted about my pums.
So, did you lie to all of us here when saying you did not have arboreus or just me when you said you did?
How about using my name to lie and my name to ask for help/good feedback.
How about having Robalo?
This lie list will just keep building.
Dirtbag.
And you still can't address the lies?
Sports_Doc Wrote:Phil,
When I hear about people, high profile Froggers in a tight community no less, posting or threatening to post personal email communications online, the first thought that comes to my mind is that I'd have no further trust in ever talking with, emailing or otherwise conversing with someone who would stoop to publicly posting his/her private conversations in order to 'win' an argument. No matter if they 'were' right or wrong, I just don't see future trust being offered if the consequences are betrayed confidence.
Agree totally. If I have a hint of someone breaking my trust....adios preferential dealings and reciprical trust. The bones of a person and business are laid bare by their reputation and how they deal/treat/correspond with people. THIS is an open community forum. It is actually Benefitial, IMO, to let everyone hang themselves, show their ass, betray trust ect ect ect IN THE OPEN and archived for all to see for eternity. If I played favourites, deleted a shit-ton of posts (I delete some, but not near as much as other forums, I believe, by the way) and massage the content,postings and vibe here to cater to some people for whatever myrid of reasons....what good is that ? What good does that do. Create a fluffy online community where we have nothing but pics of kittens and frogs and vivs ? The true character and business ethics of people are all here to view.
How could you trust someone who at anytime would/could dig up and post your private remarks? Think about it. [no emoticon necessary]
Me personally? Nope
Second thought is "what might the corollary be to a site owner who allows such acts to continue without consequence, who turns a blind eye to such behaviors?"
That sounds like a "left handed" comment at best....at face value or worse....a direct threat. Either way, I'm offended to read it.
I have to say this thread continues mostly to be a personal 'fight' between 2 members and little to do with the original intent of the thread as I would interpret it.
Yep. It's a full-on slap fight...BUT..It hasn't been going on too, too long and it's actually speckled with some insight and revealing stuff. If it was all, 100% goofed up bitchiness and swear words and threats, I would have nipped it. I'm watching it closely.
I won't be posting her further, but if anyone would like to talk with me, [and know their emails and calls will not be later resurrected in order to gain an upper hand], please email me at ph_md@yahoo.com">sph_md@yahoo.com or U may call me by emailing first and I will give you my cell # if you don't already have it.
Your perogative. I understand completely. Again, by saying "resurrected", it seems to me that are critisizing the way I run my Forum....I get that vibe more than a few times.
In the end I hope this issue between members is resolved, as I have said to both parties privately. No good becomes of it unsettled. Both look ridiculous on the process.
They both are sculpting their respective reputations. EVERY word or lack of words is telling. Again...on both sides...I DO see some.....some...value in most postings regarding this import / personal squabble.
As for the import of site specific animals, I hope those that have access to them will shed some light on how that process can be accomplished both NOW/ as it has been for them, and in the future so we may improve how we all manage our captives better.
Me too. 100%. I am fine with quality imports and rewarding those who do good work for the animals and out niche hobby. Always. Why else would I expend so much energy to deal with the unsavory aspects if I didn't think the work and reward that will hopefully come out, will be worth it ?
Lastly Phil, I apologies if I let my emotions do the typing in some of my posts but I will stop now, and LET others decide if they would like to trust my posts, and my opinions on their own, rather then to tell them they will trust them. [was dying to put an emoticon here, but refrained]
No worries Shawn. Personally, I too get quickly offended and get loud myself, but I'm equally quick to make ammends, shake hands and start a do-over. I can't please everyone or do exactly what 300 different people want, but I will say this...I hope you come back Shawn. You are a good guy, great hobbyist and important part of our community.
Best to all,
S
To everyone - If I see a hint of a threat of any kind showing up anywhere....say goodbye to your screen name.
I've been expending a lot of energy dealing with this current import / personal battle. "SOME" good has come out of it, but my patience is just about up.
Ive been following this for a while now and after reading through all the pages I have some questions as the majority of my collection is WC "stuff".
Being WC does that make the frogs any less awesome? Now I now as a hobby we would love "site specific" animals, but because these come in as WC and with no "real" data, should we shy away from purchasing them?
Next is the holy grail of questions for me. Now I have sent emails to people asking about it but maybe the general public can help me, but what does site data look like?!? For example:
I purchase a frog from sidney and he tells me the data on it, and that is my site data (trust, word of mouth)
I purchase a frog from rich and with it i get a piece of paper (maybe like a certificate, I dont know) saying its exact locale and coordinates from where it was collected?
I would love some elaboration on this?
I have others but I will throw these out and see what comes back.
Thanks
Vinny
Simply Vinny, If you want to be able to manage your frogs' breeding long term you need locale info. If you don't have that info it is impossible to properly breed long term. The main pumilio issue, with simlar phenotypes in absolutely different breeding populations you can not ever just look at a pum and know how it should be bred. Lots of posts on outbreeding troubles and such. That's science.
The value of long term management if different from person to person.
Sidney lies, so you can't "trust" a thing he says. But, I can show you on a map exactly where 'x' is. And have long-lats for others. Science again. But mainly trust. Who can you trust ? If you want full documented info on 1% of our hobby frogs , you are out of luck.
If you buy from a guy who can't answer to his lies, you'll be out of luck, sooner or later.
How about you show us a picture of yourself holding a f&)#!ng gps and the frogs in the middle of a god dammn panamanian island and then we see who lies?
Vinnie: do you really believe this clown truly has gps coordinates for all of his frogs or is it a business claim? Dont get me wrong... There is absolutely 100% gps traced pumilio....but I bet you still back in the wild where they were placed down after data was taken. I truly believe sergios word over this goof on accurate site data 100 times! Why? Well because sergio lives in panama (bocas) and rich frye does not! Really simple. I dont believe sergio was blind folded and put his index finger on wherever it landed randomly and magically appeared there! He knows exactly in what spot to find robalo,uyama,esperanza popas etc etc....bocas is the guys backyard and if he tells me where these frogs come from, then I will believe him over some idiot who lives a good distance from south america who has yet to show hard proof of sites.
I simply share with everyone what the man in charge in panama tells me....
RichFrye Wrote:Simply Vinny, If you want to be able to manage your frogs' breeding long term you need locale info. If you don't have that info it is impossible to properly breed long term. The main pumilio issue, with simlar phenotypes in absolutely different breeding populations you can not ever just look at a pum and know how it should be bred. Lots of posts on outbreeding troubles and such. That's science.
The value of long term management if different from person to person.X
Sidney lies, so you can't "trust" a thing he says. But, I can show you on a map exactly where 'x' is. And have long-lats for others. Science again. But mainly trust. Who can you trust ? If you want full documented info on 1% of our hobby frogs , you are out of luck.
If you buy from a guy who can't answer to his lies, you'll be out of luck, sooner or later.
The lies Sidney, address them. You are caught.
You said more than three weeks ago you would come back and explain all the lies. What happened?
Thank you to both sides for answering. And I can see where both of you are coming from.
My question regarding WC, are they to be looked down upon then because of, lets say, "shaky locale" data?
I know you said, Rich, that you need data for long term breeding. Could you elaborate on this? I know that people who are buying these new imports are probably labeling them by date and some other type of info. So my thought is once they get going and breeding and are producing, wont the mixing of offspring say from my 2011 popa F1's with someone of the west coasts F1's be sufficient enough to keep diversity (not sure f thats the right word) in the new population? And by doing this keep inbreeding down? Contact with other hobbyists I think is key.
Also I know you have said there are other hobbyists with site specific data, but for hobbyists who are not aware of them and do not know how to get in contact with these people and get these frogs, or those hobbyists may not want to sell the frogs, these imports may be the only option. Is it safe to say we have a "new gen" of hobbyists and then the "old timers"? This may have been a little off but it was on my brain so I figured id ask it.
Again not trying to get personal on any account, just an inquiring mind trying to add to my knowledge.
Thanks
Vinny
Sidney,
If this was true, I don't think you'd have half the problems you do Sidney. YOU MADE UP LOCALES for specimens....many times. YOU MADE UP a ton of other stuff, including where you kept your collection (the house next door?), where you obtained the animals from (you stated YOU imported them), etc. I don't trust a word out of your mouth and given the information I don't think anyone else does either. Sergio, what has he lied about? I'll trust his word, or Strictly's word any day, just NOT YOURS.
Within a few weeks, when I get some time to sit down and post everything with proof on the extent of lies you've put out there and how it will impact YOUR future, you'll be in a world of mental anguish. Address these things now, before it'll come out of someone else's mouth, there will be NO doubts. You can control the message when it comes from you, but when me or someone else has control of it.
Why did you lie?
sidney ferrell Wrote:I simply share with everyone what the man in charge in panama tells me....RichFrye Wrote:Simply Vinny, If you want to be able to manage your frogs' breeding long term you need locale info. If you don't have that info it is impossible to properly breed long term. The main pumilio issue, with simlar phenotypes in absolutely different breeding populations you can not ever just look at a pum and know how it should be bred. Lots of posts on outbreeding troubles and such. That's science.
The value of long term management if different from person to person.X
Sidney lies, so you can't "trust" a thing he says. But, I can show you on a map exactly where 'x' is. And have long-lats for others. Science again. But mainly trust. Who can you trust ? If you want full documented info on 1% of our hobby frogs , you are out of luck.
If you buy from a guy who can't answer to his lies, you'll be out of luck, sooner or later.
Oh... You again. Im done with you brother. You are pointless,uninformed and dont know where to come at me from. Go away! Im done with this thread.
BluePumilio Wrote:Sidney,
If this was true, I don't think you'd have half the problems you do Sidney. YOU MADE UP LOCALES for specimens....many times. YOU MADE UP a ton of other stuff, including where you kept your collection (the house next door?), where you obtained the animals from (you stated YOU imported them), etc. I don't trust a word out of your mouth and given the information I don't think anyone else does either. Sergio, what has he lied about? I'll trust his word, or Strictly's word any day, just NOT YOURS.
Within a few weeks, when I get some time to sit down and post everything with proof on the extent of lies you've put out there and how it will impact YOUR future, you'll be in a world of mental anguish. Address these things now, before it'll come out of someone else's mouth, there will be NO doubts. You can control the message when it comes from you, but when me or someone else has control of it.
Why did you lie?
sidney ferrell Wrote:I simply share with everyone what the man in charge in panama tells me....RichFrye Wrote:Simply Vinny, If you want to be able to manage your frogs' breeding long term you need locale info. If you don't have that info it is impossible to properly breed long term. The main pumilio issue, with simlar phenotypes in absolutely different breeding populations you can not ever just look at a pum and know how it should be bred. Lots of posts on outbreeding troubles and such. That's science.
The value of long term management if different from person to person.X
Sidney lies, so you can't "trust" a thing he says. But, I can show you on a map exactly where 'x' is. And have long-lats for others. Science again. But mainly trust. Who can you trust ? If you want full documented info on 1% of our hobby frogs , you are out of luck.
If you buy from a guy who can't answer to his lies, you'll be out of luck, sooner or later.
Philsuma Wrote:To everyone - If I see a hint of a threat of any kind showing up anywhere....say goodbye to your screen name.
I've been expending a lot of energy dealing with this current import / personal battle. "SOME" good has come out of it, but my patience is just about up.
Justin....please explain to me how I was unclear in my statement above. Also explain to me how telling Sidney that "he better fess up, come clean...time limits ect.or you're going to post evidence or whatever...is somehow, in some language, country or custom, NOT considered a threat.
You are normally one of the better posters, the more collected, better informed, enhanced social skills...but then you blow yourself up by threatening Sidney. You had everything going right and then you lose a whole post, maybe even thread by undermining your own credibilty.
I know you are serious with regards to your hobby involvment...ALL the subjects involved in this fight are...OTHERWISE I would have hit the ban button on several screen names a long, long time ago.
I misunderstood your post to be one relating to physical threats. Hopefully my posts did not come out that way.
My thought process was that I was encouraging Sidney to address these things himself before someone else posted clear evidence that he could not backtrack from. I thought it would have been ideal (for him) to have these things come from his mouth & not someone else's (like mine). In short, I was giving him the chance to save some creditably and ask for humility.
Perhaps I didn't address this correctly, or I should have not have even brought it up. From my biased viewpoint I saw things one way, but if my posts where taken a different way, then that was not what I intended. It may have even my my frustration with someone blowing off something that should be taken seriously. Though, I don't know why I would even think that would happen when ignoring the problem has historically been how it has been handled. If I have gone over the line please delete the post as needed and I'll address these topics later in a more concise and easily read format, dependent on the facts.
Philsuma Wrote:Philsuma Wrote:To everyone - If I see a hint of a threat of any kind showing up anywhere....say goodbye to your screen name.
I've been expending a lot of energy dealing with this current import / personal battle. "SOME" good has come out of it, but my patience is just about up.
Justin....please explain to me how I was unclear in my statement above. Also explain to me how telling Sidney that "he better fess up, come clean...time limits ect.or you're going to post evidence or whatever...is somehow, in some language, country or custom, NOT considered a threat.
You are normally one of the better posters, the more collected, better informed, enhanced social skills...but then you blow yourself up by threatening Sidney. You had everything going right and then you lose a whole post, maybe even thread by undermining your own credibilty.
I know you are serious with regards to your hobby involvment...ALL the subjects involved in this fight are...OTHERWISE I would have hit the ban button on several screen names a long, long time ago.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17