Dart Den

sidney ferrell Wrote:if only the "few" on here saying this was about money and to win a buc knew..... Pshh! If only you knew what the intended plan was and the requested numbers were of each morph then I wonder what other flaw youd find in this shipment.

Rich: at least be honest about one thing here. What was the plan with this shipment and what were the number we requested? Were they numbers thatd profit us all? Or any of us ?!?

Before you ask anything from me Sidney,
WERE you lying about having and breeding arboreus, or are you NOW lying about NOT having arboreus ?
Either way, as I plan to show later this week, the common thread is you lie all the time.

Sports_Doc Wrote:All,

I guess this thread isn't really accomplishing much anymore [at least for me]...and it has the appearance of personal attacks which wont settle anything here.


I'm happy with the animals that were made available, the controversy I hope is entirely contrived because of a slow week in world news


My time is quite limited so I really cant be spending it on this much longer, if at all.


So, Something new and important happens let me know.

Best,

Shawn, you know full well this is not your thinking at all. I truly hope after I post all the Sidney shit you know is coming you come back and admit it's MUCH more than something contrived by myself or others screwed by your business partner Sidney.

You'll know for sure when something new and important happens, along with Frognet, Dendroboard feeds and here. very sad you feel nothing important come from this. Live and learn.

I don't think anyone would care if it was about money. People who put time and effort into something should profit on it. What this ENTIRE thread is about is, can this shipment be trusted to be what it is being said it is? It's tainted. To then see the exporter offer these same animals to everyone else just adds to that. I just really hope that the actions of one didn't screw over the other people involved. So far it seems it has been full of misinformation stemming from a single source.

Sidney, address all the lies.

sidney ferrell Wrote:if only the "few" on here saying this was about money and to win a buc knew..... Pshh! If only you knew what the intended plan was and the requested numbers were of each morph then I wonder what other flaw youd find in this shipment.

Rich: at least be honest about one thing here. What was the plan with this shipment and what were the number we requested? Were they numbers thatd profit us all? Or any of us ?!?

RichFrye Wrote:Can't bash the guy for making up info? No?
This is the same guy who has gone underground. the same guy who has not yet made it right for others in the hobby. The same guy who got "Zach Allen Smith" to buy from me , because Josh Lucas knew I would not sell to him.

No, no reason to bash the guy...
I forget Mark, exactly how many vivs do you personally have running in your house?

Well I went from 30 vivs in Ohio to 7 here in Florida, I am perplexed as to what that would have to do with anything being discussed here? I didn't get what I was supposed to from the guy, he then offered me a big list and said pick equal value and a little more, from my perspective I had no room to bash a guy that made my deal right $$ wise.

Reason I ask Mark,
for a hobbyist with 7 vivs, the number of frogs you seem to always have coming in don't match up with what a hobbyist can handle with 7 vivs.

I pass off a few to friends to work with, maybe they don't have the $$ for frogs like some of us but if they are good and conscientious I have no problem doing breeding loans. And trust me Rich, if I could have proven anything I would have commented on the guy. I went to many for proof and no one could verify anything about the frogs I got...or at least they would not to me when I asked.

sidney ferrell Wrote:Say: are robalos legal to sell in the us hobby at the moment? Were the few that were sent to certain individuals legal and allowed to be sold when they were transferred out of certain institutes? just curious... Anyone?

I though you have robalos Sidney, at least that's what you told me in an email. Remember your friend from the zoo got them for you...

From your emails ...
Ive got two lines of cr true blue jeans,blk jeans,granoliferus quepos,san cristobals,caucheros,bastis,yaras,mc, robalos,benedictas,reticulatus,and a morph of pumilio I guarantee no one has....isla lobos

And...
Not at all. My best friend is the director at gladys porter zoo in south tx, and hes a branch importer exporter and gets me pretty much what I request...but I just compared fryes prices bc he knows what hes doing.....This is a shipment of 150 pumilios and ranitomeyas I just got.


Maybe you should remember what you tell people ...


Frogman666

O

Rich,

There really isn't a need to call Mark out on number of vivs in relation to this thread.

Justin and Rich....we really don't need to hear that Sidney "lied" 25 times. If you can present something relative to the "lie" then do, otherwise move along.

We DO need the info posted here on this import, because it's obvious that unless we discuss it and gather info to decide if we are going to participate or not...the info will never get out otherwise. That much is certain.

I hate concealment. Like I said, everyone has a right to earn and make a profit....but not at the expense of clouding the hobby and making it more difficult for those of us who want to know what happened and what can be expected of the frogs.

No more personal attacks from anyone...last warning.

Do I post the info about Sidney in his post? Just want to make sure it goes in the correct place.

though not on topic I will say this, when I had 30 tanks my hobby seemed like a job, now that I have fewer I enjoy them much more but I am always wishing I had room for 4 or 5 more tanks.

BluePumilio Wrote:Do I post the info about Sidney in his post? Just want to make sure it goes in the correct place.

If you mean the "Feedback" thread for him, yes...provided it's firsthand info, i.e documents that you have seen or emails that you are in possession of.

Did anyone see this?
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php? ... &de=910108

BluePumilio Wrote:Did anyone see this?
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php? ... &de=910108

oh my....that didn't take long, did it ?

Did these come in as Boca Grande Cristobal or something else? Just curious. Neat frogs and not bad for approx $200.00 pair.

Philsuma Wrote:

BluePumilio Wrote:Did anyone see this?
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php? ... &de=910108

oh my....that didn't take long, did it ?

I am pretty sure those came in as Bahia Grande....'Boca Grande'? and let the management difficulties begin....

The 2-3 days after the import there was chiriqui grande, bahia grande, salt creek, popa, and almirante for ~$75 each via SR, depending on who you talked to down in FL. These were the leftovers after the pre-involved parties got first pick, I don't know what is left but on Friday those were apparently all available.

Anybody have pics of some of the lesser known imports that came in?

cbreon Wrote:I am pretty sure those came in as Bahia Grande....'Boca Grande'? and let the management difficulties begin....

The 2-3 days after the import there was chiriqui grande, bahia grande, salt creek, popa, and almirante for ~$75 each via SR, depending on who you talked to down in FL. These were the leftovers after the pre-involved parties got first pick, I don't know what is left but on Friday those were apparently all available.

Anybody have pics of some of the lesser known imports that came in?

Craig: dont you already know what all morphs came in? Last i heard you were trying to purchase some of these new imports through a frogger in the east coast? You are in PA right?

Sidney, do you have (or have had) Oophaga arborea?

Answer that truthfully and I think we can use that to judge who we should accept information from. Well, at least it'd be informative for me.

Personally, I'm happy to see these come in, as long as nothing but correct information sticks to them.

You're in TX, right?

sidney ferrell Wrote:

cbreon Wrote:I am pretty sure those came in as Bahia Grande....'Boca Grande'? and let the management difficulties begin....

The 2-3 days after the import there was chiriqui grande, bahia grande, salt creek, popa, and almirante for ~$75 each via SR, depending on who you talked to down in FL. These were the leftovers after the pre-involved parties got first pick, I don't know what is left but on Friday those were apparently all available.

Anybody have pics of some of the lesser known imports that came in?

Craig: dont you already know what all morphs came in? Last i heard you were trying to purchase some of these new imports through a frogger in the east coast? You are in PA right?

cbreon Wrote:I am pretty sure those came in as Bahia Grande....'Boca Grande'? and let the management difficulties begin....

The 2-3 days after the import there was chiriqui grande, bahia grande, salt creek, popa, and almirante for ~$75 each via SR, depending on who you talked to down in FL. These were the leftovers after the pre-involved parties got first pick, I don't know what is left but on Friday those were apparently all available.

Anybody have pics of some of the lesser known imports that came in?

This is the $20 million dollar ques - what documentation exists to say what part of the isle the frog was collected ?? ie "bahia" Cristobal... Popa is another convoluted isle of color morphs.

I ask this ques as constructive to the future pairing of these animals. I personally do not have any, but if a day ever came I was to buy some 2 years from now, what evidence will make them more than "Strictly 2012 Popa" ???

Hoping people who bought the frogs will comment w how they would represent the frogs if/when they have F1 for sale.

thx

RanaVenenosa Wrote:This is the $20 million dollar ques - what documentation exists to say what part of the isle the frog was collected ?? ie "bahia" Cristobal... Popa is another convoluted isle of color morphs.

I ask this ques as constructive to the future pairing of these animals. I personally do not have any, but if a day ever came I was to buy some 2 years from now, what evidence will make them more than "Strictly 2012 Popa" ???

Hoping people who bought the frogs will comment w how they would represent the frogs if/when they have F1 for sale.

thx

Everyone that bought them think they are site specific so that's how they will be labeling them I'm sure. Whether or not there is any proof of that, and whether or not they are going to share that proof.

Until some better evidence is shown, everybody got 2012 "Lomas", "Esperanza", and "Salt Creeks" and they shouldn't be calling them 100% known locality anything until then. They are just like all the other imports of pumilio.

I will say this, the "Salt Creeks" definitely look like Salt Creeks, also known as Cayo Sinnombre according to Dendrobase.de. And I don't believe the old Salt creeks are the same, or if they are, the gene pool was small enough that very few phenotypes are being expressed in the captive population. But saying Patrick says they are the same as his is useless because he labeled them as several different things before "Salt Creek". Know why? NO DATA. But, if this hobby has to label based on phenotype, like we do with pumilio, I would agree they are "Salt Creeks"...just not 100% Salt Creeks.

Yes but back in the late 90's and even early 2000's access to data and info was severly limited compared to today and back then our hobby did not demand much in the way of that info. Labeling anything 100% I will admit is wrong, Rich's GPS frogs 100%...did he collect them and mark the spot himself? All the Tincs, there are probably 4 or 5 Cobalt morphs? Are there not 2 locale's of Standard Lamasi...or sadly should I say were there not 2 locale's?
I think the only true locality specific frogs are Understory and Mark P, he collected them and knew where he was when he did and now he is selling them, based on that his would be the only true 100% locale' data frogs.
But in reality does what we know change these frogs, Rich's frogs, my frogs....we can do our best based on the info we have. There is always a chance that was was requested, exported as such and visually matched is really something else but the chances are very small with some of these charactersitically unique morphs. I am totally satisfied with what I have and honestly have nothing else to say on the matter....which I am sure will as a great relief to many of you.