Oophaga pumilio import and non site specific

[Sports_Doc]

http://www.dendrobates-breeding-frog.com/

This is where they came from fellas.

SNDF I dont think actually imports, I might be wrong, but I do know they buy a lot of their frogs from Strictly.

Strictly is just an importer. They do the paperwork, pay the fees, arrange the international shipping and the Customs agent contact. Then they sell them in bulk quickly as they arent set up as breeders/ long term care. Frogs are a minor part of their import business.

Any of you can import. Go to USFW, get the license, make the contacts, and do the work. It's too much work for me honestly.

I'd like to know, what frogs in the hobby have GPS data??

Shawn

[Philsuma]

Shawn,

We've all seen that website for the last 2 or so years. Pics and websites are only the tip of the credibility iceberg.

We all WANT to believe that these frogs have some locale data, we do, but we need to keep the perspective on track here. What assurances do we have over what has been imported in the past ?

Do we have additional pics ? Video ? A live Panamanian national who several members of the U.S Hobby community knows and can say they have met and talked to ?

We had Chris VdL with us and we all trusted him. J.P's been down there several times and I hold his posts in high value.

As far as GPS data ? You are correct there. Whoever claims such locale data needs to back it up, otherwise we have pumilio that are JUST like any other import - not superiour to other pumilio, but certainly not any less desirable.

Healthy, sustainable frog imports are awesome. We all want that, but we need transparency. If people are tight-lipped and hostile with talking about these issues, then those are people I never want to patronize.

[JJuchems]

http://www.dendrobates-breeding-frog.com/

This is where they came from fellas.

SNDF I dont think actually imports, I might be wrong, but I do know they buy a lot of their frogs from Strictly.

Strictly is just an importer. They do the paperwork, pay the fees, arrange the international shipping and the Customs agent contact. Then they sell them in bulk quickly as they arent set up as breeders/ long term care. Frogs are a minor part of their import business.

Any of you can import. Go to USFW, get the license, make the contacts, and do the work. It's too much work for me honestly.

I'd like to know, what frogs in the hobby have GPS data??

Shawn

SNDF is an importer, their permit number is listed on their website. It is not worth the time and hassle I am sure for Marcus to set-up imports if the guy down the road is doing it too. I have had little issue with Strictly and I am sure dart frogs are a very minor part of there business. This was a good few days of sales but a headache I'm sure. Was it worth their headache and time?

[RichFrye]

With all the lies revolving around this shipment was it worth anybody's time or sleep lost? Money lost? Rep lost?

By Thursday of this week I will have a ton of 'new' (I'm reading and working through a years worth of written bullshit) info revolving around the whole ins and outs of this shipment. Written lies and written misleadings around the whole thing. Then, once everyone is absolutely aware of who's been doing what, everyone can make up their own minds on the whole mess.

There are still quite a few people sitting on their hands waiting for money from Sidney who do not want to say anything against Sidney. I'm sitting on my hands, but it's not stopping my posting.

Reward the liars and dirtbags. Why change now?

[sidney ferrell]

Frye: say what ever you beed to say right now. Dont keep everyone waiting until thursday. You say I sent you dead frogs in our trade, well you know for a fact you sent me sick / dead frogs as well in our last trade and I have every pict and response from you and thats is a fact. Since the first time I bought frogs from you (bjs) what did you send me? Remember?

Funny how you..not shawn, not anyone else, for the past 2 months obnoxiously called me first thing in the morning,noon,evening and late night evey single day literally harrasing me for these sc,esperanzas and to call strictly and exporter and preassure them to ship! And now you have b#££$ to be on here doing this? You were the main one wanting these frogs!

I personally do no care what you have to say about this shipment... So despite everything youve said, truth of matter is that some mighty fine !!!salt creek!!! !!!buena esperanza!!! !!!loma partida!!! are now in the hobby and there is absolutely notthing you can do about it, and my suggestion is to get used to it quick or itll be a hard next couple of months for you until may and we all dont want to comeback into this thread and continue this again.

As for my deal with you, you publicly claim I you $4000... You know very well I dont owe you even half and I will have to post our deal and hopefully show people what their in for if you upset "rich frey"...blackmail,coercion and personal threats. youre a bad person man....Even after I repeatedly tried to bargain with you the past few weeks admitted and apologized for not being 100% honest on many issues which were(non of your business)and attempted to to come up with a solution....It just made me realize youre not good and am glad it happened this way because it is exactly my learning experience to progress and learn not see people the way you do $$$$$$$$$$$$


Once again- to anyone who Has told rich I owe you money... please say so here.

[Sports_Doc]

With all the lies revolving around this shipment was it worth anybody's time or sleep lost? Money lost? Rep lost?

Here is my perspective and experience:

About 4 mo ago, I was told of a number of locales of pumilio being imported through Strictly, and assumed per their usual, most would end up with SNDF and on Kingsnake.

Someone was in contact with the Exporter on the ground [not me], for the past year I was told, trying to arrange certain locales to be available.

What started out as a small import, with me and some long time froggers getting a dozen breeding stock new animals, ended up with the exporter loading his trailer [actually I hear helicopter] with every last sellable pumilio and the import ended up with a lot of extra 'filler' frogs, not needed.

In fact, I'd say not wanted at all, as the US hobby doesn't need any more Cauchero/ Cristobals/ Popa ect. From a breeding sustainability standpoint there is enough stock to supply the future demand without pressuring natural resources further. Agreed?

So yes, a big HA, and then a run through the muck that is the hobby backlash ever single time something new hits the ground and not everyone was 'included'. Geez.

Seriously, very few people would be disappointed with great new stock of varieties they would have had to sell their children to acquire just 6 mo ago. Tell me you all have a nice selection of Salt Creek or Esperanza or Loma Partida in your frog rooms breeding now?

Last time I saw a Loma was Tuss Taylor at IAD 2006, they were 600$/pair CB 7 years ago. Esperanza, never. Salt Creek 700$/ pair, and they are very limited availability. Last import of them was 15 years ago. Call Pat Nabors and chat it up with him.

Best,

[I was typing while others were responding above, so sorry if my response is out of sequence]

[sidney ferrell]

Yikes!!!! Almost forgot...

Why is it you are bashing these animals, yet one of your " very good buddies"From chicago happened to order a good amount of salt creeks? I mean couldnt you explain to him and convince him these were solarte and at best some terrible no site, un gpsd fake salt creeks????



Hmmmm????.....

[markpulawski]

Pat Nabors got almost all the salt Creek imported with that 90's shipment, he says they are the exact same frog as he got part of this batch as well and comparing them next to each other, the exact same frog 100%. For those that say this could be something different have you actually seen any? Rich I understand your friend Daryl in Chicago is getting a bunch of them, why don't you pop over and take a look in a day or 2 and tell us what you think they are, I would be anxious to hear your opinion once you see them.
I too had been looking for Salt Creek for a long time and had asked Pat Nabors on numerous occaissions about getting some but he was keeping all to build up his breeding program. I was just really happy to see such a rare frog show up here in the states again...legally.

[RichFrye]

Hey Sidney, I've told others before ;
I WILL BE THE ONE TO TELL WHO IS MY VERY GOOD FRIEND AND WHO IS NOT. You are not, but you've told others you are. Probably the same issue with someone else using my name for their rep.

We have all been waiting over a week now for you to answer to all the lies you said you would be back to answer to. What's the delay?

At the end of this week, once I have put together all the lies you spout, you'd better have a plan. On a few levels.

[RichFrye]

Pat Nabors got almost all the salt Creek imported with that 90's shipment, he says they are the exact same frog as he got part of this batch as well and comparing them next to each other, the exact same frog 100%. For those that say this could be something different have you actually seen any? Rich I understand your friend Daryl in Chicago is getting a bunch of them, why don't you pop over and take a look in a day or 2 and tell us what you think they are, I would be anxious to hear your opinion once you see them.
I too had been looking for Salt Creek for a long time and had asked Pat Nabors on numerous occaissions about getting some but he was keeping all to build up his breeding program. I was just really happy to see such a rare frog show up here in the states again...legally.

Hey Mark,
if they are the same frog, and you and Pat know it, why the orange and green label...

[RichFrye]

Hey Mark, how about the "solarte" label on those frogs???

[RichFrye]

Emails like this , along with pics, taunting me are what we can expect later this week...
Again, every time I turn around Sidney owes someone else money, not frogs. These people are waiting , hoping ...

Quote from a Sidney ferrell email on February 8th 2012;
"You were first and last on my list fir my arboreus offspring as soon as I got them going ......which I did... But no....wc and therefore badbad bad!"


Yes, he knows I don't want WC illegal frogs, so he thinks his tauntings with emails and pics will work on me...


Rich

[sidney ferrell]

Pat Nabors got almost all the salt Creek imported with that 90's shipment, he says they are the exact same frog as he got part of this batch as well and comparing them next to each other, the exact same frog 100%. For those that say this could be something different have you actually seen any? Rich I understand your friend Daryl in Chicago is getting a bunch of them, why don't you pop over and take a look in a day or 2 and tell us what you think they are, I would be anxious to hear your opinion once you see them.
I too had been looking for Salt Creek for a long time and had asked Pat Nabors on numerous occaissions about getting some but he was keeping all to build up his breeding program. I was just really happy to see such a rare frog show up here in the states again...legally.

mark: maybe once rich sees daryls frogs in person and convinces him they are solarte, maybe he can send them to us. ; )
I wouldnt mind a few more to pair up would you? : )

Cant wait to see the site specific,gps true salt creek pop up sometime next year ; )

[RichFrye]

I encourage you to post more Sidney. It always makes my point for me. Thanks. I've not been to Daryl's house in quite sometime...
Care to address all the illegal frogs you admit to?

[RichFrye]

Now, back to the unanswered...
If Patrick knows 100% that these new frogs are Salt Creek, and they are the same as the green and orange little frogs from way back when , why on earth would he call them "orange and green" and not the 100% known label of Salt Creek from the beginning ????
And, why on earth the label of "solarte" also?? These frogs are 100%, right?


Maybe it's because the term 100% is wrongly used all the time in this hobby.

[Philsuma]

ok people...lets stay on track here and discuss site/locale info in the hobby.

NO need for the tauntings, personal attacks from anyone to anyone.....

[Philsuma]

Are healthy, good looking pumilio appreciated in the Hobby ? Sure they are. Like I said many times, as well as in this thread - I'd buy WC pumilio and support the RIGHT people. There are importers and jobbers that will NEVER get my money, and then certain other ones....may.

It all comes down to "Frog Bucks". Who do you support ?

There will always be a percentage of the hobby that would buy anything from anyone and that's just a fact of life.

When it comes to Dart Frogs, specifically imports, I watch for 2 things:

1. Support for someone bringing in quality, healthy animals in a sustainable and conscientious manner

2. Not gouging and "strip mining" the hobby for $$ ...like selling to new people as their first frogs for $$$ . Everyone has a right to seek profit for their hard work, but if you've been around long enough, you'll KNOW gouging when you see it.

That type of thing.

So I'm watching this recent import with cautious "hopefulness", and I will see how it all pans out before declaring it a disaster or a success. Just my personal viewpoint as a hobbyist.

[RichFrye]

From Sidney on 12/282011;


"Salt creeks should be like this...I actually like the full grey paws..."




So Mark, do these look like the ones which came in? And if so, which are the 100% "orange and green" which Pat has been selling? Wait! Different phenotypes together????

[BluePumilio]

I'm a bit curious on the O. arboreus.

Emails like this , along with pics, taunting me are what we can expect later this week...
Again, every time I turn around Sidney owes someone else money, not frogs. These people are waiting , hoping ...

Quote from a Sidney ferrell email on February 8th 2012;
"You were first and last on my list fir my arboreus offspring as soon as I got them going ......which I did... But no....wc and therefore badbad bad!"


Yes, he knows I don't want WC illegal frogs, so he thinks his tauntings with emails and pics will work on me...


Rich

[Sports_Doc]

Thanks for posting the picture Rich.

Can I ask, where that photo came from? and it's date?

Shawn