Dart Den

scott_r Wrote:There is one big difference. Dillion is an 18-20 year old kid living at home with I would imagine no bills other than maybe a car payment.

If it were only Dillon. But it's been fairly apparent that Rick is actually running this operation and here's what he had to say on the other board:

Quote:I am an IP lawyer and gave it up for this because we love the frogs and family side of this business more than anything.

Pretty darn tough to feed the family on $20 frogs

For you yes. For them No.
See, last year my 12 year old made paracord bracelets for $5. Another scout sold them for $10. I bought supplies off Ebay, and I know for a fact the other scout got everything at Hobby Lobby. The other scout made a $7 profit, my son only made a $4 profit. At the end of six months, the other scout had made $150. My son on the other hand got all the business, sold 200 bracelets and made $800.

If they sell 100 frogs a week at a dollar a pc profit, they make $100. If you sell all 10 of your frogs at $2 a pc profit, you make $20.

Buy in volume, sell in volume, make money in volume.

Who is a flipper going to buy from to get 100 frogs? them or 10 hobbyists with 10 frogs each?

And you assume Dillon's mom doesn't work, and forget they have Dillon's college fund until things take off

I wonder why more lawyers are not quitting law and using their children's college money to get $20 tinc breeding and hybridizing businesses going as the family income...seems so well thought out (insert most sarcastic eye--roll emoticon ).

That was a very well thought out response Rich.

Scott, if you want me to attempt to crunch each and every bill the family may have, all their debt, all the financial issues they may have in the near future and then attempt to somehow pay for it all with $20 tinc production, pure bred or hybrids, no thanks. I'd rather keep my responses short and sarcastic. It's what this issue deserves . No 150 pages from me...and no squirrel sightings either...winky, winky.

I suspect this issue is not going away. In the mid 90s, bearded dragons, panther chameleons, and leopard geckos began appearing in a multitude of colors. Yet you still had to search to find dart frogs.Frognet was a pain in the ass to use. The internet really started to be in every home around 1996. It was another 8 years till the forums came to be. Now 10 years later, the hybrid taboo is being openly discussed by more and more people. I know you and Phil will argue, but I believe the hobby is about to change and will are going to be seeing hybrids and things like High Orange Phase Cobalts or Pink Bastimentos.

The hybrid issues have been openly discussed on Frognet from it's inception and on each and every dart frog forum since. And it is not going away. Year after year we have those who come from other hobbies attempt to argue that somehow there is a place for hybrids in our dart hobby. They can not argue that somehow the mixes are better (take note of the failure in the attempts by this latest group of self proclaimed"experts...) and , much as with parasites, there is no known benefit from either for the darts.
Year after year and thread after thread after thread there is a tiny minority which seems to think the dart hobby is craving hybrids and year after year and thread after thread they get proven wrong.
With the large number of darters in our hobby and that number growing each year it is inevitable that a few inexperienced frogger who just don't get it will surface each and every year, just as they have since I have been in the hobby each and every year.
The sky is not falling. We just need to clean up some crap that has fallen as , or before , or after said crap throwers leave our hobby.
The dart frog hobby is not like other herp hobbies. And for that fact alone I like it.
With dart hybrids bred for decades, can anyone cite an established , known CB line selling here right now? Because I can't .
BTW, pink basties naturally occur, as do high yellow tincs. What you mention to make the high anything or breed for certain traits is selective breeding , not hybridization.

^^ perfect.

But they are not being discouraged anymore, and are going ahead with their plans. DFW is selective breeding and I believe soon will come hybrids.
The campaign against DFC had no effect. The Campaign against DFW is having no effect. The Hobby is slipping away from the forums and that is the future

'Slipping away from the forums'....?.....lol

That's just not accurate. We never 'owned' it (the hobby).

DFC has a person behind it that is despised by many, but as you already pointed out Scott, even a MOD on DB continued to patronize him. Hobbyist with more money than morals ?? OF COURSE. Purchasing animals at 1am in a back alley while wearing a high brimmed trench coat ? Yep. Nothing new there either. As old as the 1980's.

The forums cannot make policy or demand that people do this or that. All DD can do is continue to shine the spotlight and provide the hobby with the information they need - no censorship and coddling certain members, mods or vendors.

I do care if it appears 'slow'...I love the forums (this one anyway). I still think it's the 'conscience of the hobby' and our LAST line of defense in pursuit of truth.

And that is what I am referring to Phil. The general consensus of the forums is splintering and the conscience is becoming bipolar.
And it is those actions. " If we shouldn't buy from Taron, why do the Mods? Screw that, I am buying from him too"

buying 'shifty' frogs from whoever = ok by a lot of people. As a forum owner, I had the opportunity to obtain a LOT of 'different' species and 'grey area' frogs or downright questionable stuff -I simply passed on them. We are all ambassadors here in this hobby and it's so small and niche that word gets around QUICK. The people that continue to subscribe and post on DB after all the mod shenanigans and now the new corporate Canadian owner...well....that's on them.

Creating 'hybrids' = still very much marginalized and in small moral minority.

Still be interested in someone pointing me to an established CB hybrid line selling right now before I cry that the sky is falling...
The hobby and consensus is not becoming bipolar. A few oddballs are and have been.

give it time Rich, the hobby is still fairly young comparably. There were a handful of species around mid 80s, a shitload late 80s early 90s, Only in the last 15 years or so have we got all the different locales and morphs available.

Do you know for a fact there isn't a CB hybrid in the hobby? There are atleast two people that have offered new pumilio in the last couple years I would not put passed breeding them in their basement

And yes, traffic has seen a drastic drop on all forums. And they aren't all over on Jason's new forum, they are just gone

scott_r Wrote:give it time Rich, the hobby is still fairly young comparably. There were a handful of species around mid 80s, a shitload late 80s early 90s, Only in the last 15 years or so have we got all the different locales and morphs available.

Do you know for a fact there isn't a CB hybrid in the hobby? There are atleast two people that have offered new pumilio in the last couple years I would not put passed breeding them in their basement

Hybrids will never be hobby mainstream. If I need to be extremely specific as to what that means to me I can, but it is a fairly straight forward statement which I feel confident voicing.
I was pretty specific when I said no CB established lines of hybrids being sold, as in more than a couple oddballs here or there with at least some longevity.
Again, our hobby stands by itself and stands out from a LOT of other herp hobbies and some of their nasty habits .
People who breed registered horses, dogs, and quite a few other animals which are bought all the time for less than many of the breeding pairs I have sold this year demand lineage and records and those who do not pay next to nothing for mutts. It's a choice we hobbyists have made , and it was made quite awhile ago.

scott_r Wrote:... And they aren't all over on Jason's new forum...

You don't say? Not even the "how to file an FOIA " sections?
It is the dead of a very nasty winter.

Ok, I'll bite. How specifically are you going to prevent this Rich. Please enlighten us. The prices aren't the only thing dropping, so is the average age of the hobbyist. And the 20 something crowd could care less

scott_r Wrote:Ok, I'll bite. How specifically are you going to prevent this Rich. Please enlighten us. The prices aren't the only thing dropping, so is the average age of the hobbyist. And the 20 something crowd could care less

History prevents what coulda shoulda woulda happened.
If the 20 something crowd could care less...at least it means they care.
If they could not care less then I take note.
Sorry pet peeve of mine . :wink:

DFW will soon be posting pictures of mixed morph hybrids on their site. Did you not tell them you forbid it?